The Passive Pivot of the Lower Body
 

When I see a golfer hit a driver 280-300 yards sitting on a chair it is obvious that the pivot of the lower body is not the major power source.

I believe the pivot of the lower body should be for impact accuracy only. The bigger or aggressive the pivot of the lower body is the harder it is to stay in balance and stay in sync with the circular motion of the hands and arms and the less accurate impact is.

The bigger and more aggressive the pivot of the lower body is the less accurate impact is period!

Some golfers like Tiger can time an aggressive pivot with the hands and arms at impact most of the time but we also see what happens when he doesn’t. Tiger just has a rare talent and a lot of luck when the driver is way off line. He will almost always have a shot to the green.

We are not like Tiger!!!


On the other hand it is easy to time the hands and arms with a more passive pivot of the lower body for accurate impact. Golfers should work hard on applying more power to the hands with a more passive pivot of the lower body. The more power you apply to the hands via the muscles of right arm and upper body the faster the club head moves and with a passive pivot of the lower body the more accurate impact is.

This is why Mike Austin was so long and straight.

The pivot of the lower body should only make room for the hands and arms to perform correct motion to the club on an incline plane, without disrupting club head speed and impact accuracy.


Saying this some golfers that read this will not be willing to give up the ideas of more power and club head speed through the pivot of the lower body and will continue to struggle with impact.

This pivot obsession is why the scores of weekend golfers will always be high and for many years to come.

Give up the bigger or aggressive pivot addiction and see what potential you really have as a golfer.

To Better Golf,

John W Rohan-Weaver G.S.E.M.:golf:

A lesson or two with Tommy???
 

Purehitter,

Did you study TGM with Tom Tomasello???

DG

Joe Norwood says the same thing..

Though George Knudson, Stan UTLEY said otherwise.

" the hand are steering wheel, the legs are accelerators"


And I read from a real interesting article from golf digest,

Fire the hips to hit 110mph+. Data collected from 3d machines.

Personally... I find what P&B hit it on the nail on their Stack and Tilt DVD. What is the swing designed for? They claim Stack and tilt is designed to be very accurate and apply the maximum power. If they are to design a "distance " swing, they would have done it differently... interesting..

What are your thoughts on that Sir?

Norrie Wright is who I worked with to become an authorized TGM instructor.

What they mean, IMOP is if your going to max out the upward thrust into a driver you would have a huge assent upward into a driver swing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyPI9...eature=related

Sorry can't much TGM lingo about it.However your centers would be all Behind at the top of the swing.

Joe Norwood, Bill Mehlhorn, Ernest Jones and many others have figured it out long before all the Hi-Tec 3-D machines we have today. As for the Golf Digest articles I would take that with a grain of salt. If they printed the True G.O.L.F. Motion we would only see a few more magazines. This is not what they are in business for and I think you and many on this forum know that. One of the best things to happen from the internet is the uncensored golf instruction available from many reliable sources and for magazines like golf digest they will no longer continue to fool the new golfer as he too has the internet to find instruction. Let’s hope he finds this forum.

:golf:

Motion v.s. Action
 

Sounds like "When I see David Copperfield make himself float in the air it is obvious that he can fly."
"When I see the horizon at the sea it is obvious that the earth is flat."
.
.
.:salut:
"Sitting on a chair"="passive lower body"?????????????

"This is why Mike Austin was so long and straight"? Seem pretty aggressive (both action- and motion-wise) to me.

Anything wrong with Tiger? An his hip action and motion coming down. Doesn't seem passive at all.

I see. So Mr. Austin's pivot is to "make room for the hands and arms to perform correct motion to the club on an incline plane, without disrupting club head speed and impact accuracy."

:sleepy:

yinyang you put me to sleep as well with your comments towards purehitters posts as you seem to misinterpret what the man is saying. i suppose for the ungifted unathletic types you seem to lean in this direction you probably won't ever really understand what is being said

MacDonald's exercises seem to be arms, legs and feet focused. Little core strength.
Jeff Hulls Video in Gallery on 1st move down with the Ugh ! seems to be hips and core muscles.
Ben Doyle chips from feet.
"Sit Down" seems to be a core muscle function
Tiger's snapping the knee to extend the radius causes the throw out and down to be faster.
McHatton's constant motion to drag and produce throw out is caused by "golf hips"
All of my previous experience with Doyle, Tomasello, Sloan, Hebron McHatton, Schaeffer, Ness, and other TGM instructors has been focused on pivot. All of these guys are successful, smart, knowledgable and have accomplished students.!
It would seem to me that there has to be a balance and synchrony involved in the motion. I would hope that civility would be maintained and all you experts could discuss it in a meaningful way. All I know is that Ben and Greg constantly talk about having to work on the pivot.

Old MacDonald Had A Pivot . . .
 

Of the eleven MacDonald Exercises (Drills) http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=4435, the first four and the last two concern the Body (Zone 1) and its rotation via the Pivot (Component #12). And specifically, Exercises #2 and #11 introduce the early and essential rotation via the core muscles of the hips and lower back (Components #14 and #15). So, more than half the drills emphasize the body's 'stacked and centered' address alignments and its subsequent rotation.

The other exercises introduce and coordinate the equally-essential movements of the Arms (Zone 2) and Hands (Zone 3).

:salut:

Read the first paragraph of 7-12 in TGM book. The first sentence is for power the next two are for accuracy. A more passive pivot provides power and accuracy at impact. An aggressive pivot will provide power and reduce accuracy at impact.

The Last Sentence of 7-12
 

Purehitter,

I like the last sentence of 7-12 too. "Because, starting down with a Hip Turn tends to bring the Right Shoulder and Elbow too close to the Ball, which delays the straightening of the Right Arm and leaves the Clubface too open at impact."

Checkout Letter Series video #2 of Tomasello for a demonstration of the above comment.

DG

Well done Delaware Golf!!

Hey Purehitter, Norrie earned his GSEB through me and at the time he did not like Hitting very much. He's always been a big fan of the pelvic girdle clearing on the downswing and providing a primary muscular thrust to somehow hit that ball in the most mechanically advantaged manner. I wonder if you convinced him that the right arm and hands unhinging to the ball was a superior way a la Tom Tomasello, Peter Croker, Delaware Golf, et al, and me. I don't talk to Norrie anymore so I wonder if you know how he feels about the right arm and hands now?

By the way, you are a persistent man in trying to convince the regular posters on this site that the pivot is a conduit vs. the source of the primary muscular thrust that hits the damn ball. The legs are the engine and the right arm and hand are the primary muscular transmitters that redirect groundforce caused by hopefully instinctive leg action. This is likely true for both Swinging and Hitting. In pure Swinging the right hand is palm up to the plane when right arm muscular thrust is transmitted and in pure Hitting the right hand palm is perpendicular to the plane when right arm thrust is transmitted. Hinge action through impact is the difference along with grip tightness.

I think Homer Kelley usually writes throughout 6 to 7 editions that the pivot is utilized for transport, guidance, launching pad, and back up support for the power package and not much of a power source itself. Modern research supports this as currewnt biomechanics assigns the role of stability to core muscles so that humans can create powerful accurate movements of their extremities. We can't kick the damn ball. Strike it with your good arm and let your pivot help. The pivot can't hit it, but without the pivot it would be hard to hit it well. As for pivot help, the shoulder girdle clears to let your right forearm uncock toward that inside aft quadrant of the ball, so whether you are in a wheelchair or on your knees the pivot helps. Good work John from your trustworthy ally, Cooper

Cooper Comments
 

Another solid post, Coop. I always enjoy your comments. Thanks for posting!

:salut:

Cooper it is good to see you are keeping an eye on these swingers and not letting them get out of hand. Just kidding but it is funny how people read my posts. I said use more of a passive pivot. I did not say to not pivot. If you touch on a subject that is etched in stone for some golfers they will say whatever they want to try to disprove you. It is like telling a story to a friend and when the story finds its way back to you after several people telling it you would not even recognize it. :confused1

Purehitter,

I personally feel and would like to make a little argument . The correct amount of antidote have to be given to the right amount to the poisoned or overdose will occur .

Too much Hip slide is as notorious as too little hip slide. 7-12 ...But I agree .. maybe good players will need to quieten their leg action some.

I know this. because I came from too much out in, to too much in out , slicer to hooker ..

Also



Furthermore.. In a full swing motion by having a too active right tricep... low point will easily change.... As our bucket say its beautifully. Accumulator 4 and 1 moves together. which mean release of the accumulator is a synchronized effort .. too passive or too active pivot will destroy rhythm. They have to have to sync to maintain rhythm and proper sequence.
.

Furthermore.. In a full swing motion by having a too active right tricep... low point will easily change.... As our bucket say its beautifully. Accumulator 4 and 1 moves together. which mean release of the accumulator is a synchronized effort .. too passive or too active pivot will destroy rhythm. They have to have to sync to maintain rhythm and proper sequence.
.[/quote]

"When a golf club is moved, there is no visible information as to the cause of the movement—you cannot discern what is really going on just from watching. In golf, perhaps more than in any other sport, knowing the difference in what exertions to use actively and what actions are more passive is enormously important in hitting the ball with the sweet spot of the club head!"


John W Rohan-Weaver G.S.E.M. "The Hammer"

good posts guys.

I find this a bit unusual for this forum

Has anyone on this forum ever claim that the lower body is a source of power? Every TGMer that has studied TGM with Lynn Blake understands the role of the pivot and that it is NOT a power component.
Why bring it up here????

The Pattern of the Stroke being used designates where Thrust is to originate and that is completely the player's option. See 10-4 and 10-19. Pivot Thrust alone (2-K), forfeits Right Arm Thrust (6-B-1). Power Package Thrust alone (6-O), forfeits Momentum Transfer (2-K).

Originating from 2M3 .. can someone explains what it means?....

2-M-4. BODY POWER Inertia can hold the Left Arm against the chest while the Body Turn is accelerating it and Momentum can then sustain it and come out with the Feel of left Arm power. See 2-K. To clear the fog, consider Pivot Thrust as Body Power blasting a Swinger's essentially inert Left Arm into orbit toward Impact. Or, as supplying the initial acceleration of the Hitter's loaded Power Package so the Club- head can be endowed with Pivot Speed PLUS Right Triceps Speed. Study 6-B-4, 6-C-0 and 7-12 in this connection.

thanks.

Ok here is what I have:

Norwood's grip + Jack Kuykendall's pattern = super straight medium trajectory bullets.

Norwood's grip + Tomasello's pattern = High soaring draw.

Norwood's grip + Scott Hazeldine's pattern = Super high soft draw.

Scott Hazeldine's Pattern?????
 

Hmmm....sorry for my ignorance...but who is Scott Hazeldine??? Please describe his pattern???

DG

He used to work for natural golf. Teaches a Moe Norman type pattern.