Clubshaft Alignment At the Top
 

In another thread, Jeff presented his captured 'Top of Stroke' Clubshaft alignments of these four great golfers. His blue dots represent the spine's L5 and C7 vertebrae.



Wow!

So, what's with Gary Player versus those 'other guys'?

Let the discussion begin!

P.S. Thanks, Jeff!

draw vs fade?
 

would love to hogan in the mix

Closed Shop
 

BTW, do all three of these guys have Closed Stances -- including the Fader . . . Nicklaus -- or is it just me?

And films show Hogan hitting his Fade from a Closed Stance, too.

Who's On Plane? Who's Off Plane?

What's up with all this?

:scratch:

My guess is that Player is off-plane because his right forearm is not perpendicular to his clubshaft - and I suspect that he has an arched left wrist rather than a flat left wrist.

Jeff.

Could it be that they are all on plane...just not the plane that you were thinking of?

How do we know the angle of their intended downswing plane line relative to the target ? (ie. open or closed or square downswing plane line relative to target)

Loading is the first time that it is crucial to be on plane...that is when you make your intended downswing plane line known (assuming your hands are sufficiently educated.

Maybe....?? just thoughts , not beliefs!..yet!

another guess
 

Is G. Player floadloading??

Wristy Business
 

I agree that there is an Arched Left Wrist in the crowd, but it belongs to Palmer, not Player.

:)

Boss . . . I think we could get a more accurate look at the plane they swing down on in the start down. . . . If you watch Nicklaus and Player they have WAAAAAY more push foward of the hips . . . I think Palmer and Souchek are swinging on a different plane coming down than on the backstroke.

Also take a look at their clubfaces . . . Jack and Player are more open. I'd say Palmer and Souchek are either hitting a cut or a pull draw. Could be wrong though. Both of them "spin" more and their left foot does a dance due to a more turning vs. sliding.

where's the camera?
 

Is the camera on the plane that you want to observe? Here's the same location in the stroke, from three different perspectives.

Matching stance line to clubshaft line it appears to me that Player is off plane at the top with a bent left wrist. Palmer arched left wrist. Nicklaus and Souchak flat left wrists.

I'm pretty new to the The Golf Machine and all it's the prinicples. But, to me it seems that Player is swinging on a flatter plane than the others and his right elbow is slighty more in front of his chest. Thus, it isn't possible for him to cross the line at the top as the other three appear to do, unless we were to keep rotating. If what I'm saying makes no sense, I'd appreciate some constructive criticism.

Luke, what an observation! Ya, like the caddy view of a golfer showing more left wrist cock than is maybe really there when he moves to a shallower plane in start down. More angle to his float loading. Never took that parallax idea anywhere else in the swing. Thanks. Is your model on plane in all three? The last one has me wondering.

What is this system Dude. I know you can animate it, if only by a multitude of screen captures. I know you can move the camera around. But can you draw tracer lines, planes, beams of light?

Are you about to blow our minds with multiple angle, 3D explanations of machine concepts we can only now scratch our heads about?

Bet Homer is smiling right now.

O.B.

Welcome Jwelwell.

Yes, nice one, for sure Player's plane is flatter. His left arm is pointing right at the camera lens while the others are to varying degrees above it.

Its hard to compare them exactly though as I'm sure the golfers and the camera are moving around a bit. They'd never lock it off, probably hand held or maybe on a tripod. Shell's WWG was way ahead of its time with camera men standing on the roofs of trucks. I wouldnt be surprised if this fellow is doing something like that. That's his shadow probably in the bottoms of frame 2 and 3, I think. His head and the camera's 16 mm magazine.

My gut is telling me that Player's laid off a touch. Jack is more on his left side despite his foot angle.

O.B.Left

Seems like Arnie, Jack and Mike have the shaft parallel to their stance line.
Knwing how great Jack was and how he played a fade and from viewing other swings of Jack I believe he was pretty close to on plane. Go to the 36 second mark of the clip below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ87e...eature=related

same frame
 

I wish it was my system. I've asked Santa for an Aston Martin Vanquish or a 3-D system. I'm not sure what I'm getting.

Each one of my images is the exact same frame, but each is a different 'camera' location. It’s amazing how different they can look. One would assume that Player swung a little flatter than Nicklaus. So, which one had the camera in the right place?

It makes you a skeptic of any picture, if you're not sure where the camera was located, relative to the intended plane of motion.

Intended Plane of Motion
 

"At the top of the backswing I want the club to parallel the line along which it will swing at impact." Golf My Way-Chapter 3

Is Player's target line different from the other three suggesting our view of him is at a different angle? Possibly he did not have the carry length required for the line selected by the others.

DRW

3-D pawno?

I think you'd get a better perspective of plane on the startdown . . . You'd see different hand locations and amounts of hip slide.

10th hole at Pauma Valley- Straight Away- it's the same carry line regardless of how you hit the ball.:smiley2304:

And if you watch the footage that picture is NOT the top of Player's backstroke.

Threadjacker!:naughty: OK maybe not! But if the shoe fits wear it!

From His Book
 

Gary Player-Positive Golf-Chapter 9

"Another highly important feature point about position at the top is that the clubshaft should parallel the target line."

Did he do what he said he did?

DRW

Player is shorter, his arms are lower, and his spine (connect the two dots) has less 'tilt' than the other three? :eh: :whistle:

Cocked R/wrist
 

Could be a visual deception,but Jacks R/wrist appears to be cocked?