Aiming point concept
 

How do you use the aiming point concept in your golf swing?

Do you use the aiming point concept for one or more of the following reasons?

1) To direct PP#3 in a straight line thrust action towards the ball (aiming point) to ensure that one has clubhead lag.

2) To alter the shape of the hand delivery path.

3) To control the timing of an automatic release phenomenon eg. to convert from a sweep release to a random release, or from a random release to a snap release.

4) Any other reason.

Jeff.

1&2
 

My AP is always the ball inside aft 4 o'clock :golf:

Thom

What's the purpose of having an aiming point in that direction? How does it relate to the questions that I asked?

Jeff.

for me
 

The thrust has to go somewhere, and the ball is not at all a bad point to direct it. And since the hands delivery path is tredimentional down, out and forward the inside aft of the ball at 4 o'clock is even more precise than just the ball.

The amount of lag pressure on #3pp can with experience be used to determine how much thrust is required to fly the ball a certain distance. Especially handy on putts, chipshots, pitches and other shots less than full swings.

The aiming point concept was hard for me to grasp in the beginning, and mulitiple questions regarding where the aiming point is exactly, always was answered: "you need to figure it out for yourself". So I guess it's one of the things you can't just figure out intellecturally and then do it, you need to go and dig it out of the dirt.

You state the hand delivery path is down-and-out-and-forwards. However, that only applies to the second half of the early-mid downswing. In the early downswing, the hand delivery path is down-and-out-and-backwards - as can be seen in this photo of Hogan's swing.



Note the direction of arrow number 1 - it is slightly backwards (away from the target), and not forwards.

Jeff.

Nice pictures..but
 

You always put up such great shots and I enjoy them.
However This just shows the path of his hands but doesn't tell us where he is aiming them. It also depends on whether he reaches the top or the end on the backswing. From the top with the hips out of the way straight line delivery to a point determined by each individual golfer as per Yodas recent post on where that point is.

I believe the hands move "backward" due to Axis Tilt.

However the most important part of the swing is impact...your defined section 2 where the hands are moving down, out, and forward.

Sorting Through the Golf Nut's Catalog.

B-Ray

Aiming Point Concept
What a wonderful idea to execute the delivery of the hands and clubhead combined together as clubhead lag to a specific aiming point. Which could be the inside aft quadrant of the ball but does not have to be. There is where The Machine delivers the #3 Pressure Point to Impact Fix Hand Location at Impact with all Delivery Paths, Delivery Line, Pulley Sizes ect. because its structure is designed to do just that. says Mr. Kelley.

I like to passively aim my #3 Pressure Point to my aiming point only because I feel the orbiting clubhead better. The orbiting clubhead seeks out the delivery line but never directly only via the right forearm and the #3 Pressure Point. It is guided along that line to both arms straight configuration by the straight line thrust of the #3 Pressure Point towards the angle of approach quadrant of the ball or aiming point.

Clubhead lag technique is always both aiming and thrusting. Passively it is primarily aiming the lag pressure point and actively it is primarily thrusting the lag pressure point.

JE

If one aims the hands in a straight line thrust direction towards the aiming point (ball), why do Hogan's hands first go backwards before they go forwards? Conceptually, if one thrusts one's hands in a straight line direction towards the ball from the top of the swing, then the hands should go in a straight line direction towards the ball (down-and-out-and-forwards), and not first go down-and-out-and-backwards.

Jeff.

Not for sure what Mr. Hogans aiming point concept was! I think I see what you are talking about but not quite sure. What I do see is Mr. Hogan tracing a straight plane line with his right forearm and clubhead lag pressure point. I understand that the hands are directed to and through the ball or aiming point to both arms straight configuration. It could be Clubshaft Length, Handspeed or Release Point which are the 3 concerns of aiming point.
Apologizes that I am not much help on this I just don't know what his aiming point was or what he was trying to do on this stroke.

jeff, do some reading - 10-23-E...

if you go to "end"...you come back via "top"...HK describes this as "top arc" and the circle delivery path as an extendsion of this "Top arc" path...there is no axis tilt in a circle delivery path so I presume there is no axis tilt in "top Arc"....there is no early axis tilt to give early straight line delivery path.

Why don't you try and do some straight line thrusting yourself....vary your aiming point....see what shapes you get.... ?? Less gendanken...more ge-do-ing...

Most of the axis tilt in Hogan's swing came later in the downswing.

For your own experiments - you only need to go to shoulder high backswing , you can draw a straight line....don't be scared...do it and post your own stuff....then ask why does it work / not work....BH has never committed to paper of public record that he had an aiming point concept outside his experience of PP3 through the impact interval (as per Coleman video)...It is less than fruitful to interpret his swing through the medium of a concept which he almost certainly did not use consciously. But you on the other hand know all about it....

I have spent many, many hours playing with the aiming point concept. I don't believe that is has a major effect on a golfer's ability produce a straight line versus non-straight line hand delivery path in the early downswing.

I think that the straight line thrust is mainly useful for sensing/maintaining clubhead lag and it may/may not affect the release point of PA#2.

Jeff.

A challenge...
 

Jeff, downswing waggle, aiming point, delivery path, plane shift - they are all linked together...where is your data from all your hours playing...what are you basing your conclusions on...."feels as if"? Surely some of those hours playing with these concepts have been caught on video at the very least?

I would love to see 3D data - with trackman if you have it - of a player using aiming point concept, various aiming points....see what happens...if you really want to know this stuff then you have to try it with feedback.... convert some of those hours into dollars (time is money) and rent some trackman time... I'm sure the custom fitting guys are feeling the credit crunch and would love to rent you the T-man for a few hours.... it's not like they'll be selling many clubs at the moment!

THEN post your data using aiming concept rather than Hogan data when he almost certainly wasn't using it.

Jeff
Congratulations on another good question with photographic evidence. You have clearly shown the hands moving backwards from the top but in 2-C-0 Homer refers to the Three Dimensional Downstroke as being, Downward, Outward and Forward. In the photos 9-2-6 (Top) and 9-2-7 (Start down) he also has demonstrated the backward movement of the hands but from 9-2-8 (Downstroke) the hands move forward as he claims and that tallies with your second arrow and the points you have made. It hinges on the definition of ‘Downstroke’. There are many misinterpretations but as usual using Homer’s definitions, he was correct.

Cart and Horse
 

Just off the lesson tee. Looks like some good points being made. I especially like the Delivery Path visuals.

One quick point, Jeff . . .

Aren't Photos #2 and #3 out of sequence?

Oh, I see now . . .

You apparently didn't mean them to be in sequence (they are in pairs).

Carry on!

:salut:

Strav - you are correct that the downstroke 9-2-8 only starts from the mid-downswing. However, the hand movement in a full golf swing starts from the top (or end) of the backswing.

If people use the aiming point concept from the mid-downswing (official start of the downstroke of 9-2-8 ) then I can clearly see how one can use the aiming point technique to aim the straight line thrust at the ball. However, I cannot envisage using the straight line thrust action from the end of the backswing position where the clubshaft is parallel to the ball-target line and PP#3 is under the shaft.

I also do not understand what a straight line thrust really means for a swinger. A swinger should only experience enough pressure at PP#3 to sense/control clubhead lag because he is not drive loading the club.

I still have not seen anyone present any evidence that this straight line thrust action affects the hand delivery path - turning a circle delivery path to a straight line delivery path. Yoda stated that this "straight line thrust action" is used in all hand delivery actions (10-23-A or 10-23-E).

GBD - see my comments in the hand delivery path thread.

Jeff.