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Finish swivel
Can a swinger use the right arm to help with the finish swivel of should the only thought be to use the left arm? The Centrifugal Force is not doing it so I need some help for now.
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Here is what the green man said a few years ago: Quote:
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you also want your "swivel" to comply with your hinge action . . . . there are going to be different rates of overtaking for different hinge actions and plane angles. Another piece that can impact your rate of overtaking is moving your head around. If you move off the ball and hang back their . . . . gonna be much harder to control the clubface.
check the book on clubhead travel with the different hinge motions. Swinging is generally associated with horizontal hinging. But keep in mind that Mr. Kelley said that it doesn't take much to override the CF (or whatever some egg head wants to call the force acting on the face) and be a manipulated hands swinger. I'm no Homer Kelley, but bucket does not recommend turning the control of the face over to CF. Control face, control ball, control ball, control game. Another piece with your swivel is WHEN you do it . . . . See the point in Hogan's swing where swivel occurs vs. Lee Buck vs. Fat Jack . . . consider the different trajectories and the implications on the angle of attack . . . I imagine you'd see a considerable difference in the disruption of the turf if them three cats were practicing next to each other. |
where in the book does it decribe horizontal hinging?
Also what do you mean I need help with my cf? |
Jerry, start with 2G, 7-10 and 10-10.
Kevin |
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Some other book references I found in the forums: 2-G, 7-10 and 1-L #4 When that confuses you :), do a search on the archives for hinge action and check out these videos: Part 1: http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/index.p...on-part-1.html Part 2: http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/index.p...on-part-2.html And just in case that confuses your concept of the finish swivel, review this one again: http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/index.p...sh-Swivel.html |
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Why is your Club slowing down so soon after Impact that your Club can't get to shoulder high on it's own residual speed? Whatever is Driving your Club, abruptly stops after Impact. CF doesn't work that way. Law of the Flail. The Swingers Primary Concern. |
I do get a nice high finish but without the proper swivel.
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I think you hit it on the head. I think I am losing the flat left wrist. Flipping at impact but I am working at it.
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The feeling of the swivel is very different now that I know what its like to not throw it away, if the Wedge is maintained through the impact it is a foreign feeling to swivel correctly to the top. I am struggling with it. |
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After discussing the finish swivel with Yoda, and learning what it should really feel like, I have been working on it with the Taly. What a great device for learning a flat left wrist finish swivel. When done properly, the difference is both amazing and immediate! Kevin |
I know Bennett and Plummer may be 4 letter words around here but I really learned a lot about the flying wedge in their video. I guess I always thought once the ball was hit the wedge was dumped but not realize that its taken all the way to at least arms parallel and I think Yoda states somewhere its taken all the way to the top.
If this is wrong please correct me, that was my interpretation. |
IMHO Alignment Golf is all about structure. I am learning to take the FLW all the way to finish. P-B are wonderful teachers. Not a 4 letter word here at all. While the ideas are different, I believe there is a mutual respect.
Kevin |
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First post and desperately in search of flat left wrist...
I have been struggling immensely w/ applying this part of TGM to my game for over a yr now...So, just so Im following this correctly, when centrifugal force take over the left wrist is flat all they way to finish? The feeling that comes to me forearms simply turn over? Am I on right track here? |
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The wrists are rolling, amount dependent upon whether you are angled or horizontal hinging. The left wrist is also moving from cocked at the top, to level at impact to uncocked at low point, or follow through. Please run, don't walk to buy Alignment Golf by Yoda and VJ Trolio. It will be a HUGE eye opener for you! Kevin |
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I have basic motion and acquired motion down. Total motion, I fail. My pivot was lacking, Im sure of it, but still I was flipping club. As Yoda says in video, "you must prepare to be here" or something similar to that I couldnt figure out where here is. Ball flight is right for me. Hooks pulls misses are left and sometimes left of left. I will check out Alignment Golf... |
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Please study CHAPTER 5 WRIST POSITIONS - COMBINATIONS Here is a great picture of Brian Gay with a level left wrist at address. Kevin |
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When done properly, I hit wedge about 10 yards further, higher, and straighter than my pre-swivel, slappy swing. Maintain the flying wedges. STRUCTURE. Man, trying to explain my feels, I'm afraid I may have butchered this. A little help from the more experienced? :salut: Thanks, Kevin |
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P8 is just right forearm parallel to the ground. P8 is a position, we don't teach positions, we teach alignments, but I wanted you to get the picture of the shaft getting back up the plane after follow through and into the finish. Sorry sasquatch_mn, I get a little too excited for typing. Much easier to explain and show one on one than with text. Kevin |
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Go deep!
Hey Sasquatch,
I have a short cut to a well executed swivel! Learn to go to both arms straight. Without what I call a "deep impact" the finished swivel is a bridge to nowhere! Yoda goes through this progression with his Colin Neeman lesson series. chip...pitch...punch...punch w/swivel. If I fail to swivel back up on plane it is usually because I ran out of right arm because of my right elbow position and or an off-plane right shoulder. Check Trevino's right shoulder at impact. Hope that is helpful. The finish swivel is one of the sweetest feelings is golf! |
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i just watched this...amazing by the way http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Eqho...om=PL&index=53 So Travino's right shoulder at impact is what your referring and his is example Im looking to emulate? I notice big dip thru impact is that how he is getting club to stay angled to hit in order to fade? Running out of right arm would look like what in comparison or would it be more vertical? |
Start there
Trevino's "dip" is instructive. Why not start your head at the impact postion? We "bob" largely because the ball is waaaay DOWN there! I'm not sure what you are asking about hinging. Trevino used #1Acc actively which naturally produces an angled hinge. The right shoulder is part of both the pivot as well as the power package...and therefore has more to do with clubhead matters.
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Help! My swing
Looking for some help been struggling big. I wasnt sure where to post this so I added it to previous thread I had questions...
Heres down line and face from my latest effort. Obvious problem from my untrained eye is take away pulling club inside. I cant seem to get that right forearm takeaway down. Too flat and over the top? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjr-9Jrhsko http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZQPCfdfKfs |
Sasquatch, right forearm goes up. Look at Mcdonald exercises here at LBG. Try right forearm pickup while keeping the shoulders quiet. You need more armswing. I had the same issue, once I learned the right forearm takeaway and hand controlled pivot, it was amazing how different the backswing becomes.
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Sasq, you've come to the right place, Minneapolis that is. Home of Kevin Carter teaching professional, LBG and TGM guru. Send him a pm and all of your golfing dreams will come true. OK Im over selling this a tad I know.
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Not overselling at all, Kevin is the real deal. Also, contact him soon, we are planning to get together at the dome this winter to hit some balls and talk G.O.L.F. Only way we eskimos can keep up with the grits crowd.
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Sorry For The Novel :-)
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Wow, Thanks for the kind words guys, very much appreciated! :salut:
Someday soon I hope Yoda looks at having his students become a big part of his program, there is nothing I would be more proud of than being an Authorized Instructor of LBG. Someday, maybe… OK, time to man up and say what I think in front of Yoda and all the GURU’s, if I mess up, please let me know, I can take it, that’s a HUGE part of the learning process, teachers have to keep learning too! Quote:
:golf: That doesn’t surprise me, I had the pleasure of working with Dodger a few weeks ago. He has studied The Golfing Machinefor a long time, and has seen many fine teachers. He has a beautifully educated set of hands, and they control his pivot very nicely. He was getting to the top perfectly, but then got a little bogged down by positions. When we started going from the top, past follow through, and using Lynn’s finish swivel to finish, the Three Stations, life was great! With proper preparation and planning, downstroke and impact positions are automatic. ALIGNMENT G.O.L.F.! I like to look for the first wobble, and I like to first make sure you are complying with the Imperatives and Essentials, then as a one dimensional instructor of hitting, so far, I like to make sure you have Educated Hands and a Hands Controlled Pivot. Swingers please forgive me, it may be my next lifetime before I fully understand hitting and attempt to learn more about swinging. I would like to see more control of the hands as far as the takeaway. You take the club back with your pivot, pivot controlled hands, :naughty: which gets you underplane and you need to compensate by looping it back on plane by the time you reach the top. Please look towards the end of my Magic Right Forearm document and study the articles about Right Forearm Takeaway by guys like Yoda, Daryl, Loren, and Richie3Jack. I have posted with this response a picture that I believe was done by Daryl. I feel you want to strive for the “feel” of the picture on the right, “Extensor Action Takeaway.” The Extensor Action Takeaway will get you onto what I consider the preferred Turned Shoulder Plane faster. From there it’s just a Straight Line Delivery to your Aiming Point. How much easier can it get? Also please pay attention to the articles on Right Forearm Fanning. These are made for exactly what you need to work on in my and Dodgers opinion. I have also enclosed a picture put up by Yoda of Brian Gay on the Explanar Plane circle which is also in my document. This picture tells a great story if you know what you are looking for. I am a bit demented and perhaps a little brainwashed by Homer Kelley and Yoda, :happy3: but I see a classic, “Look, Look, Look” situation. Brian is clearly monitoring his hands as they control the backstroke. His pivot complies with his hands and the pivot also complies with the plane rather than the pivot dictating the takeaway and where the hands go. With his Right Forearm on Plane set up, which I believe is a wonderful way to play, he has the feel of staying on a single plane throughout his motion. Beautiful and Simple. THE MAGIC OF THE RIGHT FOREARM baby! Sorry, I got a little carried away with the length of this response, but felt it important to let you understand what I believe in before you decide to go with it. Looking forward to meeting you and starting our LBG North studies! :golf: Kevin Sasquatch, I forgot, other than being a little underplane on the backstroke, you have a VERY NICE motion! |
Thanks Kevin for the great feedback and giving me the missing piece. Sas, once you get the one piece takeaway-turn nonsense out of your mind, the backswing will improve significantly. Harvey Penick was asked once how he taught Kathy Whitworth to have such a nice shoulder turn. He said he did'nt, she had that when she came to him, he worked on everything else. The only turn I think about is clearing the right hip if I find I can't get to the inside qaudrant of the ball. Once I got away from starting the swing with my shoulders, I noticed I was on plane, and good things began to happen. It really has changed my game and I can thank The Golfing Machine for it.
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Kevin |
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Clearing the right hip... if your hips don't turn just a little bit first, your educated hands will have a difficult time taking the club back on plane. They will want to fight with right hip that is blocking their path. Thinking X-Factor is NOT a good thing.
David Orr has a wonderful video called the Walrus and the Indian, or something to that effect. It shows how their must be equal parts of the tomahawk and the walrus, vertical and horizontal. To much of one and not enough of the other can be a nasty snare. The shoulders are only quiet at startup, then they must turn and go where the hands are directing them. Think about reaching up and behind you. Your hand knows where to go without concsious thought, and your shoulders follow, also without thinking about it. Hips - a little pre-turn on the backstroke, combined with a little hula-hula to start the downstroke. This little bit of motion both ways clears a path for your hands to take over. Kevin |
Stand erect, right hand like a traffic cop. Move your right hand back to a position over your right heel. Where are your shoulders? Thats right, turned 90 degrees and you did'nt even think about them. Hands controlled pivot. Sit in a swivel chair, reach behind you as if to grab something behind your right shoulder. Your hand moves back and you swivel in the chair. Hand creates movement not body. A preturned right hip, makes sure you don't take the hands too far out. Jack Grout taught Jack Nicklaus to reach for the sky in his backswing. This is the same concept, it has been taught for decades. Look at Mcdonald drill with a dowel across right shoulder. Hand pulls dowel, what happens to shoulder? If you use a hand controlled pivot, pre-turn the right hip, what happens with your head? Stays rock steady, right between the feet. As Yoda says, there is magic in the right forearm!
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Man, these UpNordt TGMers are getting serious! I cannot wait to get to a dome with this bunch and work on hands controlled pivots.
Of course, with the recent snow and freezing temperatures we could be meeting later this week. |
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