Pp#2
 

Could someone help me sort out where PP#2 comes into play for swinging procedure? Or does it? Am I right in thinking when left arm is passive if you attempt to apply pressure other than selected hinge action pp #2 will that disrupt centrifugal force of club path?

thanks

#2 is very important in swinging, sorry, I don't have the book with me for references. #2 cocks on the backstroke, and centrifugal releases it.

Kevin

#2 and #4 are the pressure points the book advises focus on for swingers. One thing messed me up, I tried to create pressure on those points. The centrifugal force of the swinger will cause pressure to be applied at #2. If you squeeze those last three fingers, you could have problems squaring the club face. I try to make sure it is the swinging motion that puts pressure on those fingers. Monitor pressure points, do not create them artificially.

thank you that makes sense. I believe Im doing the same. That helps sort some things out in my mind. Having trouble w/ as you say creating these pressure points artifically Im sure of it. I was confused w/ fact I guess if youre pulling w/ upper left arm how could you create pressure at pp#2 w/out altering club desired path from centrifugal force.

thank you

Sorry for my rookie mistake guys. I see PP and my brain says PA. What a bonehead response. Dodger was right on, as usual. :salut:

Kevin

Each Power Accumulator has a similarly numbered Pressure Point. Swingers primarily concern themselves with the #2's, Hitters with the #1's.

In TGM the left arm is inert Swinging or Hitting via Extensor Action.

Hinge Action is an action of the entire left arm designed to keep the left wrist (the clubface) perpendicular to one of the three basic planes (the ground, a wall, the inclined plane) for clubface/shot shape control.

Words seem so confusing again. Basically Swingers actively uncock their left wrist cock and feel it in the associated pressure point. Hitters actively uncock their right elbows and feel it the associated pressure point. But Lag, "Golf's Secret" is sensed, indeed nursed in its associated pressure point, PP#3.

The pressure points are really what its all about and monitoring them becomes golf concentration in its highest form.

Pressure Situations
 

Good stuff, O.B. Thanks!

:salut:

I don't get it; "Kudos ?". For what? :laughing9

I give OB : For Originality


For Answering the Question


And, for Memorization

Monitor the pressure points. As a swinger or hitter, this is vital. I misread this at first and construed it to mean the application of pressure at those points. Glove under left armpit, squeeze #2 and press on #3. It did a great job of preventing swivel, causing throwaway and roundhousing. If you swing and use your right shoulder correctly on the downswing, it places pressure on #4 that causes blast off. The inert left arm does not do this, the right shoulder pivot does it. Uncocking the left wrist into the ground and then rolling puts incredible pressure on the last three fingers of the left hand. Homer Kelley reccomended a firm grip, because of the pressure caused by the orbiting club and application of accumulators. This is a lot of force, if it does not create the pressure to be felt, it is unlikely that it has been created or it is lost. Once lag pressure on the #3 pressure point is created, you feel the pressure in your hands, your hands do not apply it. They are clamps, the stress comes from the energy applied to them.

Where the heck is Kanye? Only one Yoda for answering the question? This is a sham. All I was doing was answering the question! Im out of order? This whole system is out of order!

What would you have said? And try to keep it to things actually found in the book this time. Or is that what you term "memorization". We talk'n about Practice.

OK maybe Daryls right maybe I didnt answer the question directly. If I understand it correctly, Id say:

No, an Active Uncocking of the Left Wrist for the Swinger will not disrupt the Club Path. In fact it will make your clubhead go DOWN and given the Inclined Plane OUT. If you are doing that Actively you will not be going UP or IN, with a bent left wrist most likely. This is the opposite of Steering. So hammer down hard.

Precisely, it is the uncocking of the left wrist that puts the pressure in #2. Hammer into the ground with the left wrist and tell me that your last three fingers in the left hand don't have pressure on them.

For a fifth Yoda...
 

O.B.,

When you say "Active" Uncocking for a Swinger are you refering to Centrifugal Force alone doing the Uncocking or and active use of the muscles in the Left Wrist?

The latter, an active uncocking of the Left Wrist when its turned to the Plane in Downstroke. This is not to say that CF isnt employed it is, this is additive. I got this from this video right here on the world wide web.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVws0CQqTDc

I hit a lot of balls with just my right arm on the club. My left couldnt do anything on its own until the day I employed Lynns hammering with a left arm only swing. And blammo. I used to pull the left arm and it didnt work worth a hill of beans one armed. But actively uncocking #2 puts some sting on the thing one armed or two.

I had thought it to be a 10-20-E Wrist Throw. Release Trigger. But Homer doesnt mention the active uncocking that Lynn demonstrates in my 6th anyways. Otherwise it sure sounds like it.

For me this versus the Right Arm Throw is the difference between Swinging and Hitting. Mind you I go back and forth a fair bit. My last game I was Hitting my drives, swinging my irons and Hitting my putts. I need an intervention of some kind maybe.

OB

He cannot earn a Fifth Yoda because he refuses to separate Zone 1 and 2 from Zone 3.

Dude its implied.

For the Swinger or Hitter, CF via the Pivot, Zone 1. For the Swinger the Left Wrist Throw, Zone 3, Hands. For the Hitter, the Right Arm Throw, Zone 2, Arms. Both Swinger and Hitter employing a Hinge Action, Zone 3, Hands, specifically the left hand for Club Face Control.

Wait a minute given the Hinge of Hinge Action is mounted in the Left Arm where it meets the Shoulder........does that make Hinge Action a Zone 2 deal actually? .................never thought about it. Its Zone 2 controlled in that while the Left Wrist maintains a relationship to one of the three Basic Planes it is really the mounting of the Hinge Pin at the top of the left arm that dictates the appropriate movement of the entire left arm. Hinge Action being an entire left arm deal as opposed to forearm turn , swivel deal. Nah the Arms are power the hands are direction. Forget it.

I must be going insane. I can actually picture Homers geometry. What next, I start understanding Daryls posts? Somebody help me, please.

It's not you Ob.

But concerning Hinge Action, for simplicity;

For a Swinger, Hinge Action should be viewed as Zone 3.

For Hitting, Hinge Action should be viewed as Zone 2.

Can you point me to the section in the book where this is discussed?

There is no doubt that the Hinge Action is a product of the physics associated with the stroke being used, the elbow position, the Throw etc but Clubface Control is ideally left to the Pressure Points in the Hands, no?

Let me try this a different way. The Left Wrist Throw 10-20-E must be Active, it being named a "Throw". It feels like a whole left arm Throw to me but from the wrist.

An Active uncocking of the left Wrist and therefor an Active Lever Extension as well as an On Plane (assuming the left hand is turned to plane) swing Force.

Does this sound right to you Drew? Whatever it is it works for a Swinger.

I can...

Zip between the 6th and 7th Editions and you can pretty much make up anything you want as far as hinge action being in #2 or #3. :laughing9

Kevin

Hmm? A Skeptic.

Homers Notes:
It's because of this insight (Release Motion) that Homer moved Hinge Action to Zone 3.

He does not mean Hand Action intentionally executed during Impact (Hacking like Kevin). He means the Hand Action you bring into Impact derived from Elbow Location which determines release motions.

So,where you should feel the Hinge depends on Hitting or Swinging.

We don't need the books to know that Hitters using Angle Hinging have a Right Hand Paddle wheel Motion; no independent Hand Motion through the Ball. With Zero Hand Action (no Roll), feel the Primary Lever in Rhythm while being Driven to, through and after Low-Point. Swingers, Swivel the Hands (Secondary Lever) into the Hinge - and Feel the Hinge in the Hands.


Homers Notes:

Wristy Business
 

The term Throw covers both that which "throws" and that which is "thrown".
Drag Loading Loads the Secondary Lever Assembly (Clubshaft only) by way of the Left Wrist through pressure Point #2. This does not result in an active drive of the clubshaft because Centrifugal Force alone powers the club. The clubshaft being pulled lengthwise toward the Plane Lines sets up a Centrifugal chain reaction that pulls the Clubhead into its In Line condition of Full Extension.
Reference 2-P last paragraph,7-1 paragraph 2
Left Wrist motion is ClubHead control. I would be concerned that you reach Full Uncocked and Full Extension too soon (prior to Impact) and Acceleration cease and Momentum only is available to drive the club. Centrifugal Force doesn't like to be overpowered. It is your friend if you want to use it.

Daryl,

I apologize, no disrespect intended. My post was not a shot at you or your post, it was merely a commentary on the 7th Edition. I honestly have not decided what to think of your idea of seperating the two. Still a little too advanced for me, my incubator is in overdrive...

Kevin

No, no,. It's not anything you say. We're all friends here. I'm just having fun jousting. I wouldn't believe anything I say either. :laughing9 I don't know why my sense of humor doesn't come through.

This stuff is very difficult to understand. It's no wonder so many give up and invent more palatable methods, like "S&T" or "Swing-a-thing" or that Golf Guru Goof-ball who, back in the 80's - 90's developed a system based on your body weight and build. No one questions those people. :confused1

Thanks man, but you have a great big jousting stick, and I would be coming at you with a butter knife, a plastic one like you would find in the airports so I couldn't hijack the plane. :salut: :) :notworthy

Kevin

oooh, don't take the big jousting stick comment the wrong way either. :laughing9 :laughing9 :laughing9

Thanks Drew.

I get this from a pure swinging, pure CF point of view. But what about Lynn's video, he was describing a swinging procedure and an active uncocking of the left wrist was he not? Or do I have it all wrong? An active uncocking as a drill only and a CF produced uncocking while actually taking a shot perhaps? A sort of Vertical hand motion drill that I have misinterpreted?

Differentiating Non-Auto and Auto Releases
 

The Left Wrist Throw Trigger (10-20-E) can be either Automatic or Non-Automatic ("active" in your terminology). This is true for both Sweep Releases (10-24-B/C) and Snap Releases (10-24-D/E). Study 7-24.

Non-Automatic Releases are triggered by deliberate mechanical manipulation. In other words, the player consciously ("actively") initiates the action. In contrast, the Automatic Releases are triggered by driving the Hands through the selected Release Point (10-24-0) -- normally via the Aiming Point procedure (6-E-2) -- as if there was to be no Release at all (10-24-E).

So, the difference between the two is that there is no "starting to hit" (6-H-0/B) when using an Automatic Release (Sweep or Snap).

:salut:

Hinge Action IS Ball Control
 

The term Ball Control is one of the four interchangeable terms use to characterize Zone 3.

Further, Chapter 9-0 from the 4th edition on (including the 7th) specifically states that Hinge Action and its resulting Clubface Motion -- Close Only; Layback Only; or, Simultaneous Closing and Layback -- IS Ball Control.

Finally, just in case we missed it, Homer Kelley also labeled Hinge Action in the large, bold, capitalized and italicized subtitle of the Hinge Action Variations (10-10-A/E) -- again, from the 4th edition to the 7th -- as BALL CONTROL.

Thus, for almost forty years and through six meticulously-edited editions, Zone 3/Ball Control was Hinge Action's happy domicile.

The posthumous placement of the Hinge Action component into Zone 2 (by the owner and editor of the 7th edition) introduces a serious inconsistency into a great work. And a 'dual placement' suggestion serves only to muddy the waters further.

Swinging or Hitting, go here for the truth: http://lynnblakegolf.com/index.php/V...ge-Motion.html

:salut:

TGM Vigilantes
 

In the first six editions, Homer Kelley placed Hinge Action in Zone 3 (Ball Control: Hands/Direction/Purpose). During his lifetime, it was always there. Twenty-three years after Homer's death, it was Joe Daniels, the owner of TGM and the sole editor of the 7th edition, who moved Hinge Action to Zone 2 (Club Control: Arms/Force/Power).

:shock:

His justification was that the migration was Homer's intent. Well, perhaps it was. I wrote a post (shortly after publication of the 7th edition) that explained how such a dramatic shift in Zones could be justified for Horizontal and Angled Hinging (but not for Vertical Hinging). But, as I stated then, even that argument was a stretch, because Zone 3 was (and is) the "Hands Lane" wherein "the alignment of the Clubface through Impact" is a critical component.

And should we really kick the Flat Left Wrist and its Clubface Control (1-L/C per 1-L #3 and 7-10) out of the Hands Zone? Adding to the confusion is this new line in the 7th edition's introduction to Zone 2 (9-2): "Zone #2 is the Clubhead and NOT the Clubface (Zone #3) activity." [All emphasis Homer's.]

Obviously, whether Homer intended to make the change or not, such a seismic shift in one of TGM's three major concepts required that much conflicting text be revised. But, Homer didn't make those very necessary and painfully obvious revisions, and he was a fanatic when it came to the 'ripple effect' of a proposed change (which, to my mind, signaled his true intention). Unfortunately -- or fortunately, take your pick -- neither did Joe.

So, what to do?

Simple . . .

If you've got the first six editions, do nothing.

If you've got the 7th, go to 9-2 (page 125), take a pen and line through "#10 Hinge Action" as a listed Zone #2 Component. Then, go to 9-3 (page 131) and add that same Component to Zone #3.

There now, don't you feel better? Humpty Dumpty is all back together again: Six Components in Zone #1; twelve Components in Zone #2; and six Components in Zone #3. All with no conflicting concepts or text to worry about.

And that's a good thing.

:golfcart2:

Left Wrist Feel Determines Hinge Action -- Or Vice Versa
 

Both Hitter and Swinger use Educated Hands to sense and manipulate their respective Hinge Actions (Clubface Control) and Rhythm (in-line #3 Accumulator Clubhead Travel per 2-G).

Specifically, each learns to control the alignment of the Clubface (1-L #4) and the Rhythm of the orbiting Lever Assemblies (1-L #8 ) through the Feel of Roll, No Roll or Reverse Roll.

They accomplish this artform by maintaining the Flat Left Wrist vertical to one of the Three Basic Planes (Horizontal, Angled or Vertical) through Impact.

:smile:

Yes, yes, yes. I understand. It's upsetting to loose sight of such a simple concept and misquote the book. I'll never be the same.

The above should read.........Basically, Swingers via an Automatic or Non Automatic Release uncock their left wrist....................Hitters employ a Non Automatic Release Trigger to uncock their Right Elbows.........

12-2-0 The Basic Pattern for Swinging lists a 10-20-E Wrist Throw and a 10-24-B Non Auto Sweep Release.

And this should read. "No, a Swinger employing a Non Automatic 10-20-E Wrist Throw, for instance, would not disrupt the Club Path. ........"

Copy Rights?
 

I had a lengthy conversation with Joe a few years ago and pointed out the numerous errors and omissions in the seventh edition. When I asked him why Hinge Action was moved to Zone 2, Joe replied, "because that is what Homer wrote. All changes in the seventh were verbatim from Homer's notes." When I pressed him on were the notes complete. He again said, " the changes were put in as Homer left them". In other words, we will never know the complete answer. But we do know that Mr. Kelley passed way unexpectedly and at the time had not sent his notes to be published into a 7th edition. Draw your own conclusion.

What a Drag
 

...but like having a television in your honeymoon suite...not necessary, IMO for Total Motion.

My 6th reads;

6-H-O IMPARATIVES

B. Avoid "Starting to Hit" when using a Snap Release (6-N-0).

Although there is a note in the margin from a luncheon session with Lynn where he advised me to add "Automatic" in front of the Snap Release.

Dumb Question Of The Day
 

Along the lines of where things are found in the book, I am curious as to why the grip is placed in the arms lane rather than hands lane? I'm sure there is a logical explanation, hearing it may help me remember where to look in the future.

Thanks,
Kevin

Evolution of a Masterpiece
 

This printer's typograhpical error (Imparatives versus Imperativies) occurred in the first printing of the 6th edition. It did not exist in its five predecessors and was corrected in subsequent printings of the 6th.

All this was rendered moot with the publication of the 7th edition and the new title for 6-H-0; namely, Curriculum. Indeed, this title is more fitting, as the journey from the 1st edition to the 6th took its toll on the original presentation.

In the first three editions, the 6-H-0 Imperatives were simply "the three most troublesome features to master." However, in the 3rd edition, these three Imperatives were further described as "Hand Imperatives". No doubt, this was to differentiate them (as a group) from the five "Basic Imperatives" introduced in 2-0 of the 2nd edition (and later expanded into the Three Basic Essentials and Three Basic Imperatives of the 4th and subsequent editions).

Then, beginning with the 4th edition, things took a real turn: Homer Kelley began to use 6-H-0 as a "curriculum" for learning Educated Hands, and he deemed that curriculum "imperative". He maintained the original three Hand Imperatives, but stated them in different words and in a different order. Plus, he added two more items to the list.

The most dramatic change, however, was his use of 6-H-0 to differentiate Hitting and Swinging. Here, he began with six points in the 4th and 5th editions and expanded it to ten in the 6th. The posthumous 7th edition retains those ten items, but now characterizes the curriculum as "indispensable".

Thus, the final references to "imperatives" and "imperative" have been removed from 6-H-0, and the Three Basic Imperatives of 2-0 stand alone.

:salut:

High Quality Post. It deserves a 5 Yoda Rating.



It would be nice for perspective, if you would identify the three most troublesome.