Zone #1 questions
 

Preface: Often, when something in the stroke hasn't been properly aligned, I have later discovered after a while that the knee bend and the (primary) hip bend has a hughe impact on all the alignments. And when these pieces fall in place it just seems so much easier to do basically any shot.

But this is a matter I haven't found much precise info about anywhere, including the yellow book. And sometimes I wonder: Why do we bend the hip? To reach down to the ball? To achieve a specific flat shoulder turn plane? But the thing I have been really wondering about is this: If some hip turn is good - why isn't more better? (I tend to overdo the thing)

Same thing with knee bend. Why isn't more better? In any other sport where the athlet was preparing for an athletic move to the left it is highly likely that (s)he would apply more knee bend. On the other hand - if more isn't better - why isn't less better?

What are precise purposes of knee bend and hip bend?

Right now I believe something can be found in the requirements of the right hand flying wedge and the elbow plane. Both will influence how high the right elbow is at address & impact. The knee bend will in addition influence how much hip slide can be produced. And the hip slide will influence location of right shoulder and right elbow at impact. Together with hip height (knee bend) and hip tilt.

But this is just a start at best. I know these two parameters - knee bend and hip bend - are very important to my own golf stroke. And I know that different Zone #1 alignments can produce uncompensated strokes. But I have experienced time and again that root cause of wild strokes and compensations have been in the stance. So I am also convinced that there are some serious noninterchangibles in this territory.

I will appreciate any input on this matter.

These are good questions . . . and infact there are alignments in the pivot. For example, to your question about knee bend . . . it's not just knee bend but it's also how much you STRAIGHTEN then knee. So let's say that the shoulder turn component you've selected (or maybe it's just what you do) is Flat. That goes with a more "flexed" right knee. Keeping the right knee bent is going to make your hip turn "less slanted" as well . . which in turn is going to allow you to make a flatter shoulder turn. And with that flat shoulder turn you're going to require MORE of a right forearm pick up too to elevate the club back UP and in. If you don't bend the elbow you'll end up with way too much back and in and not enough UP. The components are going to work better with "steeper" planes ala TSP and more linear hand paths and delivery lines to IMO.

So you want to first use the catalog of components to figure out WHAT YOU ARE DOING NOW . . .as a baseline. Then you may want to see if there are components that you could introduce to tighten up your motion. Another good place to start is what kind of shot shape do you generally hit and what are your misses. Is there a pattern there? For example let's say you hit a slice . . . well what kinda slice is it? Push slice or pull slice? If pull slice the we know that the face is open to the path. So to get the ball to fly straight or curve to the left you need to get your clubhead path more "OUT" to the right of the face. So maybe you need to get your hands "deeper" so they don't get out over the plane as fast. Well . . . that means maybe you should introduce more standard knee action and more hip turn. So to make a long post longer . . . look at your motion . . . get a baseline on what you are doing. Look at the ball flight . . what's it doing. What do you attack . . . what components could help in your path to improve things. Homer gave you the pieces but didn't really put them together for you . . . that's up to you to put the components together in a fashion that works for you.

Thanks for the reply 12 piece,

Maybe it's time to shoot some video.

Did anyone put some components together?

I know there could be hundreds of different patterns, but I'm wondering if there is anything deep in this forum... or somewhere else.

Nice post Buck. Bernt, I too find that faulty address alignments can ruin an otherwise good motion. Too much bend in the knees and waist being my bad habit. I love the glossaries definition of the Pivot.......dont have my book with me or I'd write it all out....... I now view the main job of the pivot in terms of alignments is to get the right arm on plane at impact.

In my opinion the knees are not in the business of lowering anything but rather serve as anchors and/or shock absorbers. The correct amount of knee bend, for me anyways, being the amount just before the hips are lowered towards to the ground. Just a little bend. The bend at the waist on the hand lowers the left shoulder and the primary lever down to the ball. With a level left wrist and the right arm on plane to me it sort of feels like a lowering of the primary lever to a hovered, relaxed , hanging position. As if the Power Package was in a sort of homeostatic state.

But this is just me though. Some might say otherwise, that a truly relaxed and hanging Power Package would have the left wrist fully uncocked. But for me, given my tendency towards too much bend in the knees and waist and a low set of hands with some tension at the #3 angle, it seems to be a good notion. Didnt Hogan have a thing where he relaxed his wrists and let the hands droop like he was firing a pistol into the ground as part of his address procedure?

Video Worth a Thousand Words
 

Let's do it, BerntR. And if you need help posting it, please PM Bambam. Together, we can make this happen!

P.S. Would you please explain your term "Hip Bend"? Since there is no such animal in TGM, my guess is you are referring to Homer Kelley's 'Waist Bend' (but find the term objectionable).



:salut:

Thank you for the kind invitation Yoda. I'll probably take the bait :)

It is waist bend I am talking about. I don't speak mother tongue TGM. That's all. But it is a fascinating language so I'm working on it.

The power supply for the video camera seems to be located in some container in the south-western part of Norway. So I had to purchase a replacement kit on ebay. If the winter here in Houston is over now, maybe I'll find time to shoot some strokes this week.

Power(ing) Golf
 

Great, Bernt. See you in the movies!

:salut:

Video clip of three swings
 

After 12 days without striking a ball all the bad things I've struggled with this year seemed to be back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33y12549Wq0

The typical shot of the day was a draw with a weak trajectory and too little back spin. Some were high and flyerish and some were low and rollish. I managed to produce almost any nasty shot today. Duffs, thins, pushes, slices and a couple of moderate pull hooks. Most of the divots were inside-out and some of them excessively so. And all divots were too far back for my liking. I don't think I performed one single stroke without some serious compensation.

I knew that things aren't good before I started taking the club back on basically every shot today. Things improved somehow during the film session. It felt a little less wrong at the end. When things feel right, it's like the computer is running a totally different ball striking program.

I'll make a new video later. With a better ball striking.

I want to find out what I'm doing both when I'm \\:D/ and when I'm :confused1.

Looking forward to your comments.

Back To Basics?
 

Bernt, I've read your posts, you are a smart dude! You know a lot about the machine, and perhaps, that's what is holding you back right now. You are going too deep and missing some fundamental alignments.

Oops, I'm not Yoda, hopefully you don't mind if I take a stab and look forward to Yoda's thoughts as well?

Start with 7-2. I know it sounds strange, even though I really can't see your grip in that video, 7-2 has a lot of great info on setting up properly. In your first post you asked about knee bend and wist bend. Yoda taught me that those should be based around a level left wrist (right for you) at impact fix. The closer I can get to that position at address, the better off I will be.

In 7-2:
In my opinion, level is the piece you are missing, both at address and impact. You are setting up with your hands so low, you can't "feel" your way back at impact.

Looks at pics of Brian Gay's set up. Level left wrist (right for you) every time.

I hope you don't mind my interruption, but I just went through this myself, and it transformed my game. Your motion looks very good, let's start by getting you set up for success, and working on the feel of Impact Fix in your routine.

Kevin

Nice one Kev. 7-2. Gonna go read that.

Bernt is it just me or are you facing the wrong way or something? Nice athletic motion though, you can be great.

OBLeft,

Thanks for the encouraging words. It feels good too when I'm playing well. Good and easy. I'm a 6 handicaper by the way. Or five point something. A lot of rounds around 80 when I play regularly and don't have issues. Have been dangerously close to par only on three occations. Last time this summer with 73 on a 6700+ yard par 72 course in Marbella. Possible the best 18 hole ball striking I've ever done. That round came out of nowhere and two days later bad habits crept back in.

I'm as lefty as they come. I even have the heart on the right side! (Just kidding) There's, plenty of room for left/right confusion when enter TGM discussions. I usually translate to a righty when I discuss here, but this time I think it's better to keep the mirror image intact.

Kevin,

For some reason I have never been successful with a level left wrist at impact fix. The TGM wedges make all the sense in the world to me, the low hands at address is just an involuntar variation. Because I don't know how to do it right and get a proper stroke with it. Maybe it's time to have another go at that one.

I like to think that the wrist is level at impact when I'm striking the ball properly and not as I did yesterday. More video will tell whether that is true or not.

Many years have passed since the last time I watched my stroke on video and I am preparing myself for a few surprises her...

Bernt start small, in Basic Motion, chipping.

I found my way to TGM while researching a revelation I had about the bent right hand when chipping. I didnt expect there to be any other magic alignments, I thought that was it. If you chip with just your right hand (left for you) on the club you will soon feel and see the critical importance of the bent right hand, the on plane right forearm (the RFFW) and Lag Pressure in the #3 pp. Without those things present, especially the #3, the ball will complain and compression will be lost.

There is a real cause and effect relationship apparent when doing that one armed drill. When you see it with your own eyes and feel it in your hand you will want those alignments and a level left wrist in all your shots. The alignments have a mechanical advantage that is revealed at slow speed. Prove it to yourself and make it habit, you'll never go back after you do.

Oh and make sure you get to both arms straight in Acquired that's another doozer that you'll never want to give up.

New video. This time without ball. So much easier to avoid the dreaded compensation then :happy3:

Seriously - something often goes wrong when there's a ball lying there. I can often do a good swing without a ball but still fail to repeat it with the ball. The "ball syndrome" is present in the first video.

I tried to level the left wrist as much as I could. And compared it with my usual low hands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YreMBtFUTU

If you flip through the frames, you'll see that the left forearm seems to be where it should with both strokes. The low hands feel slightly more sequenced and more body rotation at impact.

All of these strokes would produce pretty good shouts (Edit: "shouts" ha-ha. shots is the word I tried to use). At least by my standard.

Just something I fought but really helped. At least KNOW where you want to be!

One Of The Many Great Posts By Yoda
Impact Fix

The Fix as a studied, distinct Stroke Section (8-2) does not exist in today's Golf World. It does, however, exist to one degree or another in almost every good player and is brought to an art form with the great players.

For example, the #1 and #2 Impact Alignments are the Flat, Level and Vertical Left Wrist and its complement, the Bent, Level and Vertical Right Wrist. Rounding out the Big Three is the On Plane Right Forearm and Clubshaft. Do the great players assume these alignments in an Impact Fix? Maybe not. But, they know exactly what these alignments are and how they feel, and they often assume them at times you might least expect. The next time you see the Bobby Jones videos, look carefully as you see him standing around talking to the gang with his Hands and Club waist high. You will see his Left Wrist Flat, Level and Vertical; his Right Wrist Bent, Level and Vertical; and his Right Forearm and Clubshaft On Plane.

Now, to be sure, it's on a horizontal plane -- not an inclined plane -- but the Impact Alignments are clearly in place and their Feel established. This is the sole purpose of Impact Fix, and when you've got it...you've got it. All that remains to be done is replicate that Feel on the Inclined Plane of Motion.

Watch Sam Snead as he lectures to the camera, and you will see the identical Impact Alignments in place. Chi Chi sets his Grip and Impact Alignments while behind the Ball and looking down the Target Line. Except for an over-the-Top-of-the Ball Waggle, they never change until the Club leaves the Back of the Ball. Watch any group of Tour players as they wait on a Tee. You'll see Flat Left Wrists and #3 Accumulator Rolls, Right Forearm Tracings and even Downstroke Waggles.

Lee Trevino's Address Routine is pure artistry. Away from the Ball, he rehearses the Total Motion with a Practice Swing. He then walks into the Ball with the Clubshaft in the Cup of the Right Hand and with the Shaft running up his On Plane Right Forearm. As his Feet settle in to their accustomed positions, he soles the Club with the Ball just off its toe. His Left Wrist joins the fun in its Flat, Level and Vertical Position (10-2-B Grip). His Flying Wedges align to the Ball and Line in a choreographed sequence worthy of a Fred Astaire dance routine.

He lasers in on the Plane Line. He Waggles. His lower body moves into its Impact Alignment as his Left Foot tap, tap, taps. At the last instant, he Turns his Left Hand on the Grip -- he just made it a 10-2-D -- Forward Presses and with his Right Forearm takes the Club immediately Up, In and Back on an Open-Open Plane Line. And then, almost always, he stripes it. This may not be the 'academic' version of Impact Fix, but it's Lee Trevino's, and a glance at the Record Book proves that it works. Big time.

No, the Tour players don't fit neatly into Section 8-2, Impact Fix. But you can bet your boots its function has been met:

They know Impact.
They Feel Impact.
They live for Impact.
It's what they do.

=========================================

FEEL FROM MECHANICS
The biggest lesson I ever learned was, not, whether it works or not, but, if it makes mechanical sense, do it ‘till it does work. The day of smoke and mirrors is gone. Gimmicks are gone. Fundamentals have nothing to do with trial and error.
PAUL HART

Thanks OB Left,
Thanks KevKarter,

I think the impact alignments are basically sound when I am not striking the ball as in the first video. But even in the first video, the left forearm seems to be where it should be at impact:



I can certainly become more consistent if I can have the left forearm more level at address. And I will try that out some more.

But it doesn't address the biggest stroke waster in my game. The picture above was from the first stroke I posted. And also the worst. I think my computer had a hard time getting that left forearm where it needed to be at impact. But the really big issue for me is: What is the key difference between first and second take? When I have sorted that one out I can start worrying about how to get from 75 strokes to 73 or thereabout.

In response to my own post above, it seems clear to me that the shoulders aren't open enough at impact. if there is some drag forces working from the right shoulder I would be blocking the shot. And that's probably what happens to. Even though it is geometrically reasonably straight with reference to target line and the inclined plane.

Start in Basic. I bet Brian Gay did a few years back.

O.B.

If I remember correctly from the video, Brian had an injury a did nothing but basic motion for like 6 months. He credited that with his improvement!!! :salut:

Kevin

Thanks Kev. I didnt know that story.

Incubating this
 

I can sure understand how 6 months basic motion can help the stroke. It is just so much easier to sense the alignments on shorter strokes. I read somewhere that Freddi Couples loved to do full motion in slow motion. That is probably a good exercise too.

Anyway I think I'll try this one. (Thanks for the quote Kevin)

And of course with MY left forearm on the inclined plane.

I think I need to firm up my power pack assembly. It is just too flimsy right now. It wasn't always like that. It has just slipped away sometime somewhere.

Basic motion is probably a very good idea too.

I picked out this frame from impact without a ball and have a question about the impact position.



I was surprised to see where my shoulders at impact. I was expecting them to be open. But they seem to be pointing almost at the target. Is this good or bad?

I still don't know the significant difference between the bad and the better strokes I've posted. If anybody is able to spot a difference in there please I'd sure love to hear about it.

No BS Help
 

Bernt,

With all due respect to your Left-Handed Stroke . . .

We will now discuss it in this thread in RIGHT-HANDED terms.

All of us here -- lefties and righties -- are cool with that.

:)

Now, to the instant case . . .

Your posts engender just way too much self-described try and think and probably and sometime somewhere. If I may be so bold -- :-) -- Yoda says there is no "try" or "think" or "probably" or "sometime somewhere". There is only "do" or "do not." Therefore . . .

DO as Kevin has suggested in his post #10 . . .

Address the ball with your Left Wrist Level and your Right Forearm On Plane. This is hugely different from your current Cocked Left Wrist and Above Plane Right Forearm at Address (and will feel very strange!).

Practice this Address for three weeks.

In fact, make this new alignment the subject of your next post. Revel in it. Shoot a still down-the-line photo and prove to us that you really want to change.

Then . . .

Film again and submit for comment.

Including my own.

Until you do this, we are wasting your time (and you ours) in a sea of compensations.

:salut:

PS Somebody please flip the BG '07 Honda 'Level Left Wrist' Address photo and compare to Bernt's 'Cocked' Left Wrist Address. Bernt has much work to do, all long before the club leaves the back of the ball. Once that hill is won, true progress beckons. Thanks!

PPS Bernt, order -- TODAY -- a copy of Percy Boomer's great work On Learning Golf (1946). You'll be glad you did!

Yoda,

Thank you for a very convincing message.

I will do this of course. And I will return with a level left wrist and a right forearm on plane.

PS: I ordered the book too.

The transition of an inquisitory mind (was: Zone #1 questions)
 

I actually tried to change the title of the thread. Referring to stubborn middle aged men with plenty of ideas and mediocre motoric skils - like myself. We are possible the most difficult case for a teaching pro. But maybe it should have been renamed to BerntR's golf stroke blog instead.

I'm bringing a quote in from the "tracing the plane line thread". This comment was very fitting as to where I have been with my golf the last days. And since it was addressed to me, I take it as a token of empathy (Thank you Yoda).

I have spent quite a few days now, searching for the true meaning of a level left wrist and an on-plane right forearm. It is not easy. The stroke I posess is not really a sea of compensation. It is a symphony with a few compensations that keep everything together. Compensations are a good thing. They are the band-aids and the glue that separates a 35 HCP-er from a 5 HCP-er. The difficult part is to change the parts that calls for compensation.

I started in the mirror. Used real time video too. To check the fix position. Basic motion at the brickwall outside. That was a piece of cake. After one week I took it to the driving range.

The range was great fun. After an hour's struggle I was able to reproduce the pressure point monitoring as per 12-1 and 12-2 - something I've never been able to do before. For the first time I could feel the basic patterns in the book somehow. After two hours I could even hit with angled hinging and dual horizontal hinging. And I could swing with and without PP#1 driveloading. I was able to do all kinds of stuff. But the lag pressure I achieved with my usual low hands was far greater than with hitting and swinging. And to tell the truth, that was a bit of a downer.

I have learned that my symphony has driveloading as well as pivot driven Accumulator #4 loading. I think I am using a 4 barrel stroke. Lots of swinging components but also a significant portion of pp#1 driveloading. More for shotmaking and control than for power really.

Today I made further progress. I was able to find good balance and more power with the on-plane right forearm and level left wrist. The chips that I hit at the brick wall today was top notch as far as lag pressure control is concerned. It was "inside 1 yard lag pressure control". And the full stroke started to feel better too.

I'll produce a video when things have settled a bit. This is still a bit of trial and error, but a lot of fun still.

Frustration
 

I took the on-plane right forearm to the course on a Nicklaus course in Cozumel, Mexico a few days ago. It started out OK with several fairways, GIR's and pars through the first holes. But even the best shots only felt about 85% good and I consistently was 1/2-1 clublength shorter than expected. Eventually everything fell apart and I reverted to the old stroke for the three final holes just to complete the game.

The day after I went to the driving range, trying to sort things out. After quite a few balls I was convinced that it was impossible for me to hit it really solid with the on-plane right forearm. I had an outside-in feeling at address, and it felt like there wer not enough lag at fix with the higher hands and the ball further away. I just wasn't able to hit the ball with the feet.

I eventually proceeded to hit balls with the old method and had really solid ball contact in the end. When I left I was convinced that it was impossible for an endomorphic person like me to look like Brian at Fix and not waist a lot of lag before impact - In other words - throw the club at the ball.

Discovery of the *correct* right hand grip
 

Quote from Yoda:
Photographic illustrations will follow. But this is the Revelation post you asked for Yoda.

As long as the player is able to keep the ball in play, I guess all flaws comes in pairs or threesomes or foursomes. Inbetween all the miserable ball striking with the right forearm on plane I read the entire book for the n-th time, looking for a complementary issue - something that I could change to make the TGM wedges work for me. Because it clearly didn't work when I tried to power the shot. But Homer doesn't make it easy. The puzzle pieces are spread throughout the book. And vital info is presented as digressions.

7-2-2: The right forearm on plane
6-B-3-1: Much of the same, plus: "Then, ideally, the Left Wrist is always Flat and the Right Wrist is always Level".

With my (until now) grip, I had to uncock the Right Wrist at fix to get the right forearm on plane. Not so strange then that I had the throw-away feeling before starting the back-stroke.

I didn't think of this as a grip issue, but treated it strictly as a forearm issue. But the grip is (as usual) very important. Where the V's are pointing aren't really that exact indicator of the grip. Neither is the location of pp # 3. But there aren't many ways to grip the club with the right forearm on plane and a level right wrist. I can only think of one.

Grip the club with a level right wrist. Then, rotate the grip until the forearm is on plane.

That was me, talking to myself.

Of course I had to try this on the range yesterday. It felt much more right than everything I've tried for the last weeks as soon as I addressed the ball. The first 15 balls or so were all good misses. Then I started to nail it. I could hear the ball turbulence - the swish - for the first 30-40 yards or so while stiking a 7 iron without going all in. Several times in a row. That was a "first" for me. I tried the old swing for comparison and the swish was gone. The trajectory was clearly more piercing with all clubs than I have ever produced on a driving range before. Many of the balls were so good I couldn't believe what I saw and what I felt. I was laughing.

After the first bucket I had fullfilled all my aspirations for the day and then some. Since I had bought two buckets I went through the bag from 60* to the 5 iron, shooting for the 70 yards flag. There's a lot of work to do before have this change properly integrated, but direction control was much better than I'm used to.

Finally I took out the driver and hit quite a few that were at least on par with my very best drives on my very best driving days.

I feel like a reborn golfer.

PS: Percy Boomer was a great read, Yoda. I particularly enjoyed the anecdotes and his investigations in H2 translate sound mechanics to feel. Is this one of Homer's hidden references?

Still working on it
 

I made a film a few days ago. However, I wasn't satisfied with how it felt and how it looked. So I'll shoot a new one later.

I am still doing basic motion, but I'm also doing full motion into a net in the back-yard. Now I think it's time to replace the two range balls I've been using :laughing9

It is pretty easy by now to have level wrists and an on-plane right forearm at address and hit decent strokes with it. But
I am still searching for a fix and a start of back swing that is repeatable and provides the alignments that enables me to strike the ball as hard as I wish.

My address fix and startup has been very left side oriented for years. So right now I am trying to obtain a fix position where my right hip and my right forearm is as close to geometrically correct as it gets. And frome there produce a back stroke geometry that enables the down stroke physics that I'm currently capable of.

Does this make sense or should I rather use another approach?

Back to Zone #1: Looking for keys
 

I have to remind myself that I have hit a few exceptionally good shots (by my standard) with level wrists at address. Quite often it feels inferior to starting from low hands. I am not able to do it from level wrists with a consistent and full power delivery.

Today I've spent quite some time investigating why I produced better impact physics from low hands than from level wrist.

Eventually I found out that level wrists put me too far away from the ball. Not with the lob wedge which I use for basic motion and "turf dragging". Only with the hybrid - which I use to hit the ball into a net.

Low hands at address brings me closer to the ball and swing speed and ball contact gets much better. Why? The obvious answer is that I was more turned at impact than at impact fix. The left sholder was further back and the right shoulder was lower. But in reality, a compensation happened.

Just for fun, I tried to address the ball with level wrists and a shank alignment that would send the ball 45% to the right if I returned the club head to the same spot. From there I really smacked it. Of course I had to try the opposite too. Low hands and club inside the ball. Then I hit it really thin.

This triggered a minor geometric investigation. Hands lower - clubhed gets closer to the feet. Level wrist and clubhed gets further away. No surprise there. Then I switched between the hybrid and the lob wedge. The lob wedge works from level wrists. The hybrid too, if I grip down on the shaft. But not when used at full length. How come? After some more fiddling, I found that by adjusting my spine angle, and possibly my posture to - a sense of reaching out instead of leaning forward. Then low hands and level wrists produced the same club face location. (Mind you these low hands aren't as low as on the swings I showed earlier) I tried a few shots and smacked it pretty good. And the back stroke didn't feel to manufactured either.

I could check my posture by moving hands low and to level wrists. When I had adjusted my posture the two hands' locations produced approx. the same distance to the ball. And perhaps even better - all power accumulators seemed to be pretty well aligned. I got a clear GO signal.

I monitor the club path through the ball through the hands. It has become second nature. I have been able to feel when I have a decent address position for quite a few years now. I'd say the feel is about 80% reliable. But I don't posess the keys I need to fix the address when I don't see the shot I've decided to produce. Not for a full stroke anyway.

Percy Boomer wrote about building controls into the golf stroke. I need reliable keys at address & fix. It will be interesting to check if posture adjustment works tomorrow too. Or if it is just a WOOD method (Works Only One Day). If this is repeatable I will have at least two new and reliable keys for a proper address & fix: The wrist conditions and same ball distance with low hands and level wrists.

I am not convinced that level wrists at address are needed for a compensation free stroke. But the level wrists are so repeatable. And repeatability is a quality I need. When my address is good I play regulation golf. Not by a miraculous short game. But through a bunch of fairways and greens and two putts or short chips + 1 putt. But it rarely lasts for more than 6-12 holes. And then I find myself standing over the ball, unable to visualize proper impact alignments. I think I have had address drifting problems for years.

Hmm... maybe it's about pressure point alignment?
 

Yesterday I concluded that I had to have my hands lower than right forearm on plane at address & fix, basically because the ball was getting to far away from my stance line. I hit it thin, fat and a few very ugly high hooks that felt soo good until I saw the shape of the ball flight.

And today - when I eased on the level wrist conditions - I completely lost the sense of being aligned for a proper shot.

This hasn't been a huge concern since I started working on the level forearms at addres. So naturally I had to go back to the level forearm. And then the sense of being aligned came back.

Only this time I didn't level the forearm. I simply forward-pressed the hands on the inclined plane as far as they would go. And then the right forearm was on the inclined plane. Go figure :eyes:

Then I really felt ready for the the stroke. I will not run out of left arm either. And more forward and less outward will hopefully turn the hook into a straight ball. Time will show.

The net in the back yard is about to give in. The first ball flew through today, so I had to go easy on the domestic ball striking today. Need to take this to the driving range and the course to see if I'm about to crack the code.

"Pimp my stroke"
 

Now and then:


Now at the bottom. Unfortunately I am using two different clubs. 8 iron one month ago and a hybrid now.

At least the address position looks better. I actually thought everything would look more different.

Video from the garden:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLpDB8r8QyQ

It's almost embarrassing to compare this with the photo montage of Yoda and Hogan that I posted in another thread. It doesn't require a PhD in golf to see that there's room for improvement.

The swing key I am using here is throwing the club at impact with my Right Wrist. I read about it on another site, tested it in the garden and increased the swing speed immediately. The whole stroke feels different from address to impact. The thought is not very compatible with "sustain the lag" thinking, but impact feels solid.

I don't mind a long back swing, but this looks like overswinging produced by too much tilt. The footwork looks more loose than efficient. There's no reason stopping here. Question is what I should focus on next?

OK guys
 

Since I run a web shop, I regularly read visitor statistics. Wnehever I post something here I can see that it is read by quite a few people. So why isn't anyone responding? Have I been to pretentious? If that's the case I hope you will exept my sincere apologies. Fire at will!!!

This is a thread in the advanced section. I think the start of the thread belongs here, but the part that revolves around my game probably belongs in the "unadvanced / lost cause section". But then again I didn't choose my name when I was born either.

Anyways - let's make the best out of it. Share experiences. Give advices. Ask questions. Whatever.

Progress today was that I thought: "Now that I have the hands out from the body - why not try a flatter swing?" And to me turning shoulder plane almost feels like dragging the club along the turf until it's behind my Right hip (actually the left, but it's still Right per TGM)

Well - the flattening plan wasn't my own. S bucket broken in a dozen pieces did the seeding work.

To tell the truth I was quite happy with my fundamentals when I started this thread. I was only looking for a way to stabilize my pattern.

<Now folks; Let us just a pause here so the teaching pro's can complete their LOL's. This is probably something they experience all the time from mediocre old timers like me. It feels good but it aint so :-). On second thought they are probably to buzy earning a living to read this thread and that is a priority that I understand and respect 100%.

There were some progress today. I am actually starting to get intimate with level wrists at addres. Yesterday I had my first mental "go" signal with level wrists at addres. But it didn't feel as well behaved and controlled as I'd like it to feel. Throwing something into the ground is a bit more dancint than I prefere.

Today I played with lowering the plane, like: How low can I get it? Not very low, but extremely low by my standards. I made it almost down to Ben Hogan low. And the interesting part about that rehersal was that these high, stretched out, over the top, powerless, level wrists, suddenly started to feel right. I was eventually able to aim through the ball.

I was lucky enough to get my wife out on 9 holes today. If I recall correct I hit 6 out of 7 fairways and quite a few greens. And those fairway hits were pretty goodl. Two memorable green hits: One was a pure stroke with a 5 iron from some 175 yards into the wind. High, straight and with soft landing. No turf which is a progress for me, since I'm a natural born digger. The second was a 225 yard par 3 with a lot wind in the face. "How about a pitching wedge-ish drive?" 3/4 stroke with the driver. I almost hit the flag and saved a par on a really tough par 3.

The "flat" swing today felt right and worked pretty good to. And it merged perfectly with my putting because suddenly the head location and angle was the same. I think it would have merged well with my chippings as well, but I don't recall any ordinary chipping strokes today. I guess I hit too many greens :eyes:

Head and eyes location and angle is btw something fundamental to me and not only to me. My wife rarely plays golf. Her nice draw from some 15 year back has degenerated into a slice during the years when we got kids and "all that shit":sad2:. So on the dreaded long par three with the wind against she first sliced the ball onto a roof on a quite expencive hose. That was pretty cool by the way. On her provisional I told her to look at a point about 2 feet behind the ball (the Jack Nicklaus focus point I guess). And then she hit a draw. Unfortunately it didn't carry the water but she liked the stroke anyway. I think the eyes' location and focus is an undervalued fundamental in the game of golf. It influences everything. If you don't agree, assume the perfect stance and when you're ready to go - turn and tilt your head and see what happens. I still haven't found where I need to look with a flatter stroke: I think I looked too much away from the ball at times ( a hook look). But the flatter swing plane still produced many OK strokes out there today and at least a couple that was exceptionally good by my standards. Well, I guess the plane was flat only by my standard. It was pretty close to the turned shoulder plane.

Next time I post a video I know I will feel like I'm on a really flat plane. Hopefully it will appear to be flatter than the last videos. And less hip tilt and leg work from the 70's. Hopefully a motion that feels and looks pure. But I will probably basically look almost the same as before. Same old body.

The first person that has a suggestion of next step: I'll try it and report back. As long as it is doable into a net and there is no health risk involved to me or anyone in the neighbourhood.

I started out with two really good birdies today:cool: But from there on it was very variable. Each time I am close to doing the right thing the ball goes straighter than its done for years. It will require a lot of work before it becomes second nature, but it is only a matter of time.

Taking the club back to a turned shoulder plane really works for me. But I haven't found the address position where everything clicks in yeat. Not on a repeatable basis anyway.

One step forward, two back and then two forward
 

I asked YodasLuke for some help. Remote lessons.

I shot a few videos and sent them over for comments. He returned a thorough analysis on everything from the putter to the full motion. Then we had a good discussion on the phone. I can heartly recommend this. Taking lessons in person is probably far better, but doing remote lessons is far better than not doing it. Especially when the lesson is given by someone of YodasLuke's caliber.

He said he'd rather see me keep the hands away from the body at address as I've been trying for a while now. I said that that was the plan. Then he showed me a lot of wrongs. The most shocking thing to me was to see that the inclined plane was all over the place. Somehow during the years I've learned a trick or two squeeze the ball pretty hard even when the plane is off. A few years ago I would loose all power when the swing plane was gone. But not now it seems. Needless to say, when the swing plane is such that it takes a Nobel price candidate to describe it with mathematical precision, it is very difficult to control the club face and the club head through the ball....

I have been playing regularly and I have basically been feeding the fish generously with recycled pro-v1's. The irony of it all is that when I address the ball more properly than I've been doing, a whole series of errors creep in. Or at least they grow from minor flaws to gross errors. So a lot of the faults that YodasLuke identified were more or less brand new. It makes you think: Is it worth it? Is it really better? How smart is it to change something just because it's supposed to be better?

At times I have gone back to the low hands for the last holes of a round. The power returns. I can hit a few great drives (by my standard) and play a few good holes in a row. But eventually the ball finds OB or water. Not eventually. Quite often actually. There are about 23 opportunities to find water where I play. I haven't counted the OB opportunities, but there are a lot of house owners there that doesn't have to purchase golf balls so to speak. I, on the other hand, have become a regular "recycled pro-v1" purchaser at Sports Academy.

But the old method still has the old flaws. So I'm still taking the medicine even though it has a bad taste from time to time.

YodasLuke and I discussed laser devices to track the swing plane. I bought a cheap one that attaches to the club shaft and fires both ways. Goddammit how difficult it is to keep the club on plane when you're off. No matter how slow I was moving the club, no matter how I timed the stroke, no matter how much forearm versus pivot I used to start the back stroke - the plane got flatter the further the club was away from impact. For a while there I was convinced that I was doing a pure rope handling, that earth gravity did a trick or two.

But not long after I managed to keep the club on plane by adjusting the stance - and more important - adjusting the heel-toe-balance at address. The heel-toe balance makes a huge difference. Towards the toes and the plane flattens away from impact. Hello hook! All the way back on the heels and the plane steepens.

There is a biokinetic fundamental that says that our weight should be through our ancles (and pretty close to the heels). That seems to do a lot of good for me.

I am not able to keep the plane on will yet. I probably never have. It has come and gone at it's own discresion for 20 years. Everything about zone 1 seems to make a difference to me. Heel-toe balance, left-rignt balance, primary axis tilt, secondary axis tilt, how far out I put my ass. And of course the direction of the pressure points' pressure. And the intent - where I want to be at impact, including geometry and force vectors.

So in more ways than one, I am back on the topic of Zone #1.

Two steps forward:

39 strokes on nine holes on Sunday - while being true to the changes. I worked the ball both ways with driver and approach shots. Had a couple of great approaches with fade. Under 40 is decent on 9 holes for me. The ball striking didn't feel great, but it doesn't need to be perfect to score if the fundamentals are reasonably sound. After the 9 holes I hit 30 balls on the range. And then I immediately got the "got it" feeling. I could basically hammer the ball both ways. The divots pointed where they should and not far left as they have been doing. And the ball went where I was aiming, with the intended curve. I think I am back to where I was before I started to struggle as far as score is conserned. And this time I know where I want to take the ball striking. So this is gonna be exiting.

Handicap in the US.

I now have two handicaps. 5.7 in Norway and 9.7 here in the USA. Go figure. My new home course is difficult but not that difficult. And there is a couple of extra shots due to slope rating as well. Personally I don't like to excel in competition without playing well. But this could easily happen now. The irony of it all is that the slope system is the same in Europe as here, and the handicap system is close enough. If I had just delivered score card for the most recent friendly games over here - which is what they basically asked me to do, I might have ended with a handicap of 12-15. I'm sure that would have made me well regarded among peers in club competitions. The club manager said I was the first person he had encountered who was worrying about getting a handicap that was too high. I said: I want to play in competitions without becoming a sandbagger. At least I have an alibi: They insisted!

Maybe YodasLuke can come up with something to work on that holds me back a few strokes to prevent embarassing good results. :laughing9

You got that right Yoda,

It took quite some time to get used to this address position. But I got there after a month or so. And I have now hit a lot of good shots from this address position. In spades on the range and also on the course. But the ratio of bad shots is just too high. This simply isn't a path towards increased stability for me. My impact alignments used to be very solid. Now it seems like a timing lottery.

Right Forearm On Plane at address (RFOP) requires more arms swing and enables less pivot action through the ball than I prefer. Hands come in too high for me. And too late. And too far away from my spine. The right hand isn't in position to do what it loves to do, which is to drive. Combine this with tendency and preference for open hips and feet towards the target prior to impact, and plenty of Accumulator #4 left - and everything is set for a big, bad pushed slice. I think the push slice is my compensation free stroke at the moment. If I just "rip it" that's where the ball will go. Out on the course the good shots don't come in clusters as they used to do. They come in singles. Sometimes they don't come at all.

It was Homer's chapter 2 and the part about ball compression that led me to the approach that you could see on the first video - "the sea of compensation". As soon as I got the image of solid ball contact clear in my head I knew what kind of impact action I was looking for and I basically build my stroke from impact and back. The first video was deliberately taken on a bad day when I was struggling. I wanted help to sort out the difference between the clusters of good ball striking and the clusters of poor ball striking.

With the short game I never got close to the touch and the lag pressure control that I am used to having. The scrambling rate is really low this year.

I used to be a pretty reliable and steady 5-6 handicapper. Now have advanced to 10.6 and I am struggling to break 90 even though I have worked more on on the game than for years. Season best is 84. It doesn't even feel like I play golf anymore. If the RFOP had any promises it should have showed up by now. Because I have tried to build a stroke around RFOP just as I built a stroke around a good and solid impact alignment earlier. RFOP is high maintainance material for me and nothing more.

The majority of world class players seem to have their hands lower at address than the RFOP alignment prescribes. Maybe they know what they're doing?

Your stroke should be built around impact conditions...little else. As simplistic as that sounds no two impacts will be identical. Also sounds as though the bulk of your time is spent on mechanics, as opposed to practicing golf shots. Short game? Ball striking is perhaps the longest road to golfing nirvana. I am not suggesting that you not work on improving your pattern, but rather if you are lamenting higher scores there are other ways (that I think are easier to implement) to lower scores.

1. Play from the appropriate tees
2. Hit the club off the tee that you can hit 70% of the fairways with
3. practice your short game
4. shot selection, course management

My goal for my swing is to tighten my shot dispersion (and eliminate one side of the course!) not hit it pure 24/7. Never met a good player that was not a grinder!

Thanks Okie,

You are on the money.

This extreme focus on blue-print geometry was a new approach for me and a stupid mistake. I shall never do it again.

I have now returned to what has worked best for me the last years: Play golf and treat every single shot as a unique one. Every now and then a bucket after the round to address issues that has appeared during the round.

The short game will come back now that the level right forearm is gone.