Pulling many shots, why?
 

I am playing my absolute best golf right now, my scoring the last 6 rounds has gone from 84 to 80 the past month. Now while that is great improvement, thanks in part to this site, I still want to get better.

I hit balls yesterday and instead of working on mechanics I was just focused on target practice. It became obvious I was hitting it solid but everything was slightly left. I checked alignment and grip, seemed pretty good. Ball starts out just left of target with a slight draw. These shots are still more than playable. I went back and looked at my last round, every hit green was on the left side with anything more than a sand wedge.

Now I know the face has to be shut slightly at impact, and shut slightly to path to cause the draw.

Is the best way to fix this just to aim right and play it? Open the face at the time I grip it?

Here are two videos, a little dark with the shadows. These were ok strikes, and both were a little left.

DTL - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ_2LYLQvJ8
FO - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbfnV_5k8Oo
driver face on (i smoked this one) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CADe7A_Gpjg

Your plane (and plane line seems) to be pointing slightly to the left of your target. You are taking the club outside the target line in the takeaway. A minor adjustment at address and aiming for the inside quarter of the ball may be all it takes to take the ball straight to the pin.

Ask ten golfers and get ten different answers. Maybe you have ten problems? :laughing9 Just kidding.

I can tell from prior video that your swing has improved. The hard work is paying off. Congrats. You have a lot of good things going on and you look like a controlled golfer. You're still off plane and you slide your head like a mini-van door, but its getting better.

You clockwise Turn your Hands during the Takeaway, which is good. But then they Counterclockwise rotate because you bend your right arm to the top of the swing (closed clubface), then during the down stroke they remain closed, and at release, believe it or not, you rotate them clockwise again but not enough before impact. You're going into impact with a closed clubface. You turn them, roll them, and turn again through Impact.

Which is why you'll forever bend your left wrist at impact and live in darkness. :( How will you ever Roll the Primary Lever when your right forearm is rotating clockwise (Turning) through impact? You're a "Poster Child" for Hand Manipulated Vertical Hinging.


Lets Turn, keep them turned, and then roll through impact. It's Turn, then Roll. Not Turn-Roll then Turn.

Hmm? Ok. Open the palm of your right hand. Look at the Palm of your right hand and notice that the inside of your right forearm and wrist is also facing you. That's the part that never seems to get enough Suntan. Perform a Right Forearm take-away and notice that the inside of the right forearm (and wrist)is facing you. Don't change that alignment throughout the swing. Always have the inside of the right forearm facing you. Then, your right hand and left will roll through impact and for the first time, you'll hinge the primary lever through impact and maybe you won't bend the left wrist.

Write the word "Yoda" on your right wrist. Your right hand turns during the take-away and you can read the the word "Yoda". So, no matter where your hands are during the stroke, you should stop, and be able to read the word "Yoda". At impact, hands will roll and "Yoda" will again face the target and stay facing the target until the follow-through.

The bad news, is that you're going to find out how completely inflexible you are. The good news is that we added 10 yards to every club and you'll be hitting them straight - eventually.

The other solution is cup your left wrist at the top of the swing to open the face and swivel like a madman through impact.

WOW!

Going to take some time to digest. I have zero flexibility, none, and this from someone good enough to play college football.

The hand manipulated vertical hinging, Richie3jack told me the same thing, but I understand now why.

Whoa. College football. Athlete.

Richie3jack is from Atlanta, what could he POSSIBLY know about Golf? :laughing9

small time stuff, played only a very short time.

so right now in my messed up swing at the top I have rotated my palm counter-clockwise so its facing the sky, thus shut position (clockwise start, counterclockwise to finish).

If I start the backswing with the same clockwise rotation, but keep that rotation all the way to the top, the palm (or say the word Yoda) is facing my caddie view camera, or the ball, or whatever the proper term is, either way 90 degrees to sky up, correct (though with a bent right wrist I guess it is always going to be up towards the sky a little bit)? It feels very cuppy but I can see the top of the club is not shut anymore. Then the club on the downswing keeps that same relationship (whoh that feels weird), which sure feels really open to me (duh, I have been shut for years) and at the last second the club is rolling into the horizontal hinge. It feels so weird, because I rolled the other way before (doh, think thats what you said, I rolled to a vertical hinge motion from the shut position).

I hope this makes some sense, I may do a short video tonight with some questions, if you dont mind?

Lets make sure we're talking about the same thing.

If your video camera is in a down the line view, and if you do a Pitch shot (about half way) then the back of your wrist is facing the camera stand where it touches the ground and the word Yoda is facing your face. You can read the word "Yoda". "Y" is at the bottom and "A" is at the Top. At this point in your swing, if you used the right forearm take-away, your shoulders have moved and your right forearm is about parallel to the ground.

So the wrist, the inside, where you would buckle your watch if you wore one on your right wrist, would always face your face.

I was thinking the camera from the face on view. I understand the position you are talking about though halfway back.

Ok, I thought so.

Ball's starting left because the face is shut at the top. Plus your head is back. But mainly the face is shut. So open the face some at address. Look at your left wrist . . . you may want do some hammering to see how the left wrist cocks with the grip you got. You have an anatomically flat left wrist at the top which is OK however the face is shut. So you can open the face some or cock your left wrist some where you get some bend.

Now plenty of cats play nice golf with a shut face Duval . . . Trevino . . . but you are pretty much dependent on getting the right amount of shaft lean to keep that face OPEN . . Otherwise the face is gonna pull the ball.

Ok . . . just looked at the face on . . . I'd say you either need to roll that left hand counter clockwise some or you need to feel like you are bending the heck out of your left wrist at the top.

Bent vs. Flat with your grip







That bent one probably gives you more insurance on shaft lean . . . if you got the buck shut face you'd BETTER get the lean or that ball starts left.

Couples . . . less leany



Buck . . . gotta lean it to get the face open enough not to start it left of left.

Good As It Gets
 

Bucket . . .

It's been a long journey since our first day together some five years ago at The Swamp.

Since then, I've said many times that, your LBG persona to the contrary . . .

You're the Real Deal.

One who, when he chooses to opine, should be listened to . . . carte blanche http://www.thefreedictionary.com/carte+blanche. This is not an exclusive category, but admission is rare.

Your help in organizing my Archives was invaluable.

Your continuing support of our mission is appreciated.

Your love of the game and willingness to help others?

Priceless.

:salut:

Here is my video question seeing if I am barking up the right tree as suggested by Daryl. Volume is crappy but audible if you turn it up.

Thanks for everyones input. This is an issue that has to be corrected in order for me to get to where I want. I probably am exaggerating the positions but hopefully its clear enough,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqLiSo4tuWk

You'll always be the Cap'n! Thanks for everything man! You're friendship, support and the LBG crew . . .even MORE priceless!

It's been a fun ride thus far ain't it?

That's good. Once you get the Hands up to the TSP (about 4" higher than you normally have them), the Clubface won't look as open during the downswing. As you practice with pitch shots and full shots, you'll feel the club lag much farther behind as you use your pivot to drag the wet mop through Impact.

You don't need to force the roll. As the Right Forearm is driven into impact, it will roll as it passes at right angles to the Plane Line. Then as it continues downplane, it will overtake the Left Hand, and the Flat Left Wrist is easily maintained through Impact to both arms straight.

Give us your opinion of your first range session.

But keep this in mind. You were doing it this way all along except that as you bent your right elbow during the last 6 inches of your backstroke, the action rolled your hands counterclockwise. So I suspect that when you had practiced pitch shots, when the arms stop short of causing the counterclockwise roll, you had better direction and trajectory.

Yea but I think its definitely going to be more of a right forearm takeaway then ever before, it seems the more I use the RFT the easier it is to get it to the correct position at the top.

Spreadin' the Word
 

Well . . .

Last week, the principal partners of The Golf Club at Cuscowilla and I finalized plans for the new 2,240 square foot Teaching Center. A Crenshaw-Coor design, Cuscowilla is ranked as the #1 Course You Can Play in Georgia and #19 in America (Golfweek and Golf Digest.)

This weekend and yesterday, I helped . . .

-- A Nationwide Tour Player prepare for Second Stage Q-School;

-- A +1 handicap amateur prepare for next year's USGA's Mid-Am events; and

-- A 17-year-old high school girl decide which scholarships to accept as a college freshman golfer in 2010.

:smile:

Oh, and a husband-and-wife duo prepare for a Sunday afternoon 'dearin' and darlin' -- combined handicaps: 43!

:laughing9

Today, led by Andrew Ward, CEO of Cuscowilla; Jarrod Clark, Head Professional; and myself, Founder and Director of Instruction, Lynn Blake Golf Academy at Cuscowilla, a crew of about a dozen dedicated souls sited the building, staked it out and broke ground.

:shock:

Tonight, I'm in Greensboro, North Carolina, preparing for a private Academy with a group of the finest PGA teaching professionals in the The Carolinas PGA Section, the largest in the PGA of America. These professionals incluce the 2001 Carolinas Section PGA Teacher of the Year and, also, the 2009 Player of the Year).

The first week in December, I'm in West Palm Beach, Florida, with another dedicated crew, courtesy of the one of the best in the business.

The first two weeks in January, I'll be with BG, family and friends on the PGA TOUR at the SBS and Sony.

Then, on the Monday following the Sony, it's back to work -- :eyes: -- a full day's presentation to the PGA's Aloha Section in Honolulu.

This career is very different from my first, but . . .

So far . . .

So good!

:toothy1:

Now you've got it.

Yoda must have found a suit case long enough for traveling dowels, or had found a national hardware store sponsor:)

Yowzer!
 

You, Sir...are a FORCE OF NATURE:salut: Bucket is just a "turnada in a trailer park!" :laughing9

This week, I put salt in the Water Softener. My wife praised me. :salut:

Well at least you got plenty of time to rest since you turned in your holster and spurs at the finance deal . . . NOPE!!!

NICE MAN!!!!

Man that'd be a heck of a slogan if I decide to pursue a career as a professional Wrassler . . . Thanks man!

Congrats Yoda. Looking forward to seeing it some time soon. Guess you wont have to hide that golf car tire in the shrubbery anymore.

Gmb.

I totally agree with Buckets assessment. Totally.

Are you a hitter by chance? Do you dabble in the art of Active Thrust? Just checking. Here is what Im thinking too:

-a little tiny bit outside going back, probably 'cuzz the right arm isnt folding at first. An angled hinge in start up which is good if you're a hitter type. Im wondering if this is all due to an old habit of pushing the club away with the left side? Its indicated given these symptoms, just checking. If so research the RFFT. Also you right arm may be stiff or fully extended at Address. A RFFT blockage. The Right Arm Fans and Bends.
-some left wrist rolling to the inside. Leading me to think that your mental picture is maybe left side centric. See 6-B-3-0-1 first paragraph. Read and re read. If you are a hitter, or a swinger even it will do much to simplify your perception of the backswing by making it a right sided thing. (Without the left sided, standard wrist action stuff that is oh so 2008.) The problem with non aligned rolling is that it can go anywhere but most likely inside which will disturb the plane of the clubshaft and the plane of the left wrist cock (too much around and under with a flattening out of the hand and not enough UP in the left hand, hammering)
-as Buck says a literally flat left wrist instead of a geometrically flat wrist to Top. Practice the Hammer, vertical left hand cocking via a bending right elbow.
-an immediate move to a slightly steeper plane in startdown. Probably due to a premature firing of #1. An early Release. Hit the search function for "startdown waggles" as a cure. This is a must for a pull. Two for every pull on the range as punishment. Do them quickly and then hit a shot without pausing to think and watch it go straight! No guff this is the cure to a pull. It is all about the sequence of accelerating components. You have to save the firing of #1 for Release, dont fire it off in Startdown. "Endless belt". "Punch Elbow". "Hip Slide", "Delayed Turn".
-right wrist flattening out early. Its extremely bent at Top then flat at Impact. Homer wanted us to extend our right arms but with the right wrist frozen in its Impact Fix degree of bend until both arms straight. "Golfs unique move".
-a little vertical hinging through the ball. Perhaps some "steering" an attempt to ward off the clubface closing or the left hand bending. Trade the bending left , flattening right for a bent right , flat left but ROLLING.
-left arm could maybe use some "Extensor Action" so it doesnt go limp too early.

Hope I didnt add to the confusion or make it sound overly critical. I like your action it looks very strong and athletic. I love the way you stop at Top. If you arent hitting you're a strong candidate Id say. If not then I'd still add some right side awareness. Its the old left side centric stuff that gave me a lot of those particular problems anyways. Thats where Im coming from, literally.

Regards
Ob

You guys really have a good eye for golf stroke details. And the skills to put them in context too, it seems. I am impressed.

:pray:

I broke this up, hope you dont mind.

This is always hard for me, do I feel like there is a pulling of my right side, not really. Do I feel like I am trying to thrust the right arm, no. I just get to the top and feel like I am trying to propel the ball in the direction I want. No different then when I hit a baseball or a hockey puck.

Definitely, when I try active thrust hitting and its on there really is no better feeling, it tends to work well for the short irons and go haywire for the longer ones.

This summer I took two lessons from GSEM Greg Smith in Mesa AZ. We worked on the same thing really, not pushing away with the left side which was pushing my head and body, a sway type move, away from the target. It needed to be more centered with a RFT to the top. So this problem you mention was identified by other eyes.

I have to check this out, what your saying I have never considered.

Hammer, I might need to study that more.

I can see it in all my swings. All I can say is I work at it to no end. When I started playing I had a huge OTT move, could hit it a ton but sprayed it everywhere, mostly right, I guess as time has gone on this position was one I found that worked a little.

Will dO!

I definitely understand that, sequencing I mean, I just need to make a game plan to get it down.

Looking at what Daryl wrote I got the impression the bent wrist to a flatting position was my minds way of correcting the shut face, fix the shut face would help keeping it bent?

Ok

ok. When I do hit my primary thought is the right arm is just holding the left, the drill people mention is hold the arm sleeve of an jacket, that the left is the "check reign". That works well for me when I hit but I dont think about that unless I am consciously trying to hit the ball.

Anyone that takes the time to help me I am super appreciative. This site has been great to me, thanks.:happy3:

Couple things after looking at some pictures.

I see what you guys are saying, when you look at my wrists at the top, my left wrist is very flat and the right wrist has a lot of bend in it. To bad I can just find a way to get that to impact like that?

I notice that Hogan, and Sergio are very similar (wow, did I just do that to myself?)






Both of these guys have a double shift to the elbow plane? Is this something that is a result, or a need of such a flat wrist, opposed to Couples?

Here are some swings at lunch.

Its weird, the roll of the hands trying to get the forearm in the correct position at the top is hard.

I see the Couples photo with the bent left wrist at the top, I have no clue how to get to that position.

Here is the rolling forearm takeaway shots...blurry on the 420 frames, that just does not work good on this camera, maybe my setups.

DTL - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mNZiRCmJHE
FO - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh6laYQYvKE

Here is a video where I use a right arm thrust action

DTL - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPuEc3uAzR8

In all the left arm is not pushing away as much as previously, I think this is a good thing?

One comment, my buddies who held the camera commented, when I use a hitting right arm action they said the sound is just different, more of a thud into the ground. I guess the compression may be better.

I couldn't agree more!

Backswing looks better if you want to swing. It looks to me like your natural move is more of a hitter, and that if you want to hit, your pivot needs a touch of crossline hip motion.

Part of the reason you tend to steepen on the downswing is that the right hip isn't cleared (flexibility plays a role).

In your hitting motion, think right hip over right heel back, right hip over left toes through.

hit or swing, you've got a solid move. The other area I would look is your finish swivel (in both cases). Hit some punch shots and finish with the club below your hands, check your alignments - where is the toe of the club pointing?

Here is something a little weird to consider in regard to the plane of the left wrist cock and the RFT or Pickup.

Without a club , assume your address position. The plane of the palm of your right wrist is kinda sorta at 90 degrees to the shoulders right. Now swing to Top. Here too the right palm while under and supporting Hogans sheet of glass its is still at about 90 degrees to the shoulders which have now rotated. Its a little confusing but I hope you follow me. So if this is their relationship at address and at top then why would one want to rotate the palm of the right hand into a more parallel to the shoulders relationship going back? You'd have to undo some if not all of it by Top.


Also if you go to top and then, keeping your right arm/shoulder relationship in tact bring your shoulders back to address you'll see the right hand is about right shoulder high and over your right leg. This reveals the extent and direction of right arm motion needed to get to Top (when combined with a pivot for a full shot only).

So for a full shot, a Major Basic Stroke anyways, the right arm takeaway motion when viewed in isolation is a little fanning and then a Right Forearm Pickup via right elbow bending, UP to right shoulder high, TOP. Although with some momentum you can actually regard the last bit of its travel to Top as just gliding as opposed to lifting. This fanning and bending when sequenced will be like an "L" but when blended will be more of a diagonal move of the right hand from its address to right shoulder high (when the pivot is zeroed out). The Pickup portion of it is a clear right elbow bend which when combined with a pivot will cock the left wrist as well. This is the plane of the left wrist cock. Its more like pure vertical hammering than you think. But its a right handed hammering that cocks the left wrist UP. Weird or what? Going down you have options, but thats another story.

bottom line . . . assuming you hit the ball on the sweetspot . . . the ball STARTS where the face is looking essentially . . . so if it's starting left . . . it's because the face is looking over there.

Try having the face looking left at address . . . if you push the handle forward (shaft lean) the face vector looks more and more right . . . soooooo same concept at the top. If you get it shut at the top you have to get shaft lean so the face will look right enough to either start at the target or right of it.

So you can do a few things to get the face to pull the ball left

1. STATIC - set up with it LOOKING OVER THERE
2. Backstroke/Downstroke - do something whacky with your wrist conditions that shuts the face (with your grip a visually flat left wrist will do it . . . unless you get it open at address to compensate)
3. Downstroke - do something that makes your forearms ROLL (hand action) that will get the face closing fast and give you potential for a face pull (via - well actively rolling, stalling the pivot, hanging back, shifting the plane to the right)

I don't really like that rolling deal your being told by some folks . . . as she goes back she tends to come down . . . if you get it shut we sure don't need you rolling the face MORE. Even though you do it right in the drill . . . can you play golf like that?

If your grip is gonna be turned . . . you need to learn how your wedge is going to look to keep it in line and not shut. Grip it like you normally do . . . and just pick the club up in a vertical fashion like you were gonna hammer the ground in a vertical plane. If you don't do some whackjob move your wrist should cock AND BEND with your grip. So it's the same concept with golf . . . you're just doing the same hammering motion ON AN INCLINED PLANE. The left arm flying wedge is geometric . . the shaft and the arm shoud be IN LINE . . . so with a turned grip your wrist will BEND AND COCK to maintain that relationship . . . do it on a vertical plane . . . you'll see how it works.

So anyhow . . . again the question becomes . . can you play golf doing that? Who knows . . .

So you need to experiment . . .

1. Does rolling work? Maybe I don't like that one though
2. Learn to bend and cock your wrist with your grip? Could work
3. Keep the same grip and just open the face? Pretty easy.
4. Learn to lean the shaft better . . . can have ball flight implications with the long clubs . . see lee buck.
5. Change your grip some . . . a grip can be like a wife to some . . . cheaper to keep her.

That's how I seez it anyhow. But Hey . . . I got the same issue . . . still trying to figure it out. But those are the options according to Hucklebuckle.

Nice..............

It sounds like I have a few options and trying them out to see what works best is the plan.

Thanks!

1. Natural move is more of a hitter? Can you explain why you say that, I am very interested.

2. I don't know what crossline hip motion means, but I will hit the search function.

3. When you say right hip has not cleared, is this more having the hip open, a la a Vijay Singh or are you meaning getting that weight more moving left after the "top" is reached like Hogan?

The Young and the Restless
 

Congratulations on the new teaching venue. Nice to see your schedule is slowing down for a change :) . So when is the class reunion?

In your first video's, you take the club back without any startup swivel (keeping the face pointing at the ball, or more square to its arc).

Doing that will put your right elbow into more of a hitter's punch elbow position, and lead to loading the 'side' of the shaft - a hitter's loading - at top.

By 'clearing the hip' - it means quite literally getting that hip out of the way so that you can take the club back, and through, on plane. So the hands path doesn't colide with the right hip.

On the backswing for a hitter that means moving the right hip 'back' - the feel of sitting on your right cheek, getting your weight to your right heel.

As a drill to feel the right hip out of the way, setup with your right foot well behind your left, up on the toes, so that you are mainly on your left leg, and take some swings for 1/2 shots.

On the downswing that means getting the hands more down plane before the right hip moves 'out'. Although the easiest way I've found for that is to simply focus on sending the right shoulder down the plane towards the ball (which should also help prevent those pulls).

Think of your right hip moving back and forth on a line that is at 45 degrees to your targetline for a cross line hip motion.

All of that said, in the later videos, you have a nice swinger's startup and you would certainly not want to have that cross line move in that case. The startup swivel allows your right elbow to be in a pitch position (like skipping a rock), and to load the 'top' of the shaft (getting under it at the end of the backswing). In that pattern you'd want your hips to move in a more circular fashion, on line, rather than cross line.

Thanks OB
 

Thanks for this O.B. It is just what the doc ordered.
g

Thanks Gerry.

Thats a right side centric view of the backswing. Left side is very different , though they both end up at the same Top position. Which is perplexing at first.

Its weird stuff when you isolate the individual contributions of the components. The pivot on its own, given its connection at the shoulder to the right arm provides much of the IN associated with three dimensional takeaway. The Right Elbow bending provides much of the UP. The BACK is seldom an issue for most golfers. We all get that. Blended it all nets out on plane, which the brain and hands can make happen quite naturally with Hand monitoring. Without thinking about these individual motions at all. We do it all the time in every day life. The problem we golfers have is we start contriving, focusing on "golf moves" that break the brain to hands communication which inevitably result in off plane meanderings by the hands and club. The correction is to reestablish the brain to hands connection, or focus and if necessary re train the individual components to do only that which they need do and nothing more. In the end its just your brain sensing your hand motion, the corrections automatic and perfectly aligned. Like when you put your fork to your mouth or something. No blood.

We play golf by feel.