Help/Assistance Wanted
 

Hello,

I've been lurking the Lynne Blake forums for a while, and I'm looking for advice on my swing. Now, I'm not a golfer, I'm a tennis player, but I've been working at trying to understand a bit of TGM by reading Richie3Jack's golf blog, Slicefixer's Texarkana, Lag Erickson/ABS forums, and these forums. I think I'm trying to emulate the Lynne Blake swinger's pattern, but I feel that I don't have that horizontal hinge/end swivel going on. I feel like one of my main problems is not getting to the left pivot point which causes a spin-out. I'm confused about the transition move and how to clear that left side. I don't know how to shallow my plane on the downswing. I've included links of a DTL and Face on view of my swing taken today, as well as some stills. As you can see, the impact still is atrocious, just absolutely grotesque. Any help or insight is appreciated.

Thanks a lot,

Paul

DTL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPNHHiG3xgM
Face On: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yiwLn_8VbM

Paul,

Welcome to LBG. You are far too hard on yourself, you have a very nice motion!

I think you have also done a good job of picking out a piece that needs a little work. Do you have the book, The Golfing Machine?

You need to work a little Hula-Hula. Your hips bump at the very start of the downstroke, while EVERYTHING above your hips stays back. Currently, your head and shoulders are starting forward first. You don't have to swing like Ben Hogan, but he does a wonderful tutorial on this principle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL_6M_xZvq0

That would be a good place to start.

Kevin

Kevin,

Thanks for the insight. I can envision that movement, but it will be awhile before I can "program" and implement it. I will make tons of mirror swings trying to get comfortable with that motion. The link you provided is extremely helpful, Hogan makes it look so easy. I'm also going to be on the lookout for a copy of The Golfing Machine, as I think it would be great learning tool. I've noticed you guys often link the section of TGM relevant to the discussion in threads, so it would indeed be nice to have a copy. Thanks again,

- Paul

Paul,

Also, if you would like to learn what we believe, please start here:

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/index.p...in-Neeman.html

13 videos of Yoda teaching TGM. Wonderful information. You can learn a TON from these videos.

Kevin

Consider your right arm is still bent, rather than reaching Both Arms Straight follow through. More power to come :)

Me Likey!
 

I kinda like (what looks like) the angled hinge you have going there. It is rare to see that much right elbow past impact! My guess is that you do not see the left side of the course/range that much. What do you not like?

Thanks for the advice guys. Kevcarter, the link of Hogan's downswing/transition move is great. I'll be making mirror swings trying to emulate that action. I'll also make sure to check out Yoda's videos, and work on obtaining a copy of TGM. Thanks again

- Paul

Homer was a tennis player as well. Ive always thought his Right Arm Flying Wedge , his Frozen Right Wrist, the Bat Minor Basic Stroke etc reminded my of tennis, not that I know too much about tennis. Using the right side, freezing the right wrist was far from normal when he first published. Still is maybe even after all these years, despite the fact he had it right to my mind. In that way Id say TGM is a good fit for a tennis player taking up golf, be you a Hitter or a Swinger.

You have a lot of great stuff going on there. Forget about positions and stick with motion and alignments ............thats how those positions were achieved by the pro's in the first place. And dont worry about shallowing out your plane around here..........though some have a preference for the Elbow Plane there are options and to each his own.

If I may, Id suggest taking a look at "Extensor Action" . Also research how its possible , indeed ideal to cock the left wrist with Right Elbow bending and the right wrist held frozen in its impact fix degree of bend. So just the Left Wrist cocks, not the Right. It wont be easy but if you have the well trained Right Forearm Flying Wedge like I think you do, it'll seem familiar to you and it'll be something you will never give up once you get it down. The golf swing only appears to be rubber wristed, so dont entertain any actual rubber wristed techniques. Keep your right wrist tennis like frozen, your grip firm, you'll have longer lever that way. From Left Shoulder to Ball instead of Left Wrist to Ball. On film it'll look otherwise, but the ball will know the difference.

Once last little thing. Try little chips where you get a "Both ARms Straight" or "Follow Through" position when the club shaft is about 45 degrees to the ground or so. This will mean that the Left Arm is straight and the Right Arm bent at Impact. There is a little magic to be had compression wise when you get it right. This is the proper Orbit being completed. When you get both those arms straight, you'll start to feel like you're just nutting these little shots right on the sweetspot. Something you'll want to take to the rest of your shots. The left arm is like a piece of string but you have to stretch it taught with the Right side or/and Centrifugal Force. "Extensor Action", its weird but wonderful and it'll allow you to feel a lot of TGM things suddenly turn on, like the Left Wrist getting cocked by the Right Elbow for instance.

Good luck with it.

O.b.

Paul,

How is your ball striking?

Do you get to apply the strength you posess trough the ball?

O.B.,

Lately I've been trying to use extensor action at address and during the takeaway as the tugging sensation helps me feel tight and stable during the backswing. I may lose this extensor action at the start of the downswing, not really sure though as I haven't thought about it during the downswing. I'll definitely try the chipping drill you recommended with the Both Arms Straight" or "Follow Through" position.

BerntR,

My ballstriking is fairly inconsistent as far as contact, but all of my misses are short/right with a slight fade or slice. This is probably an unfair judgment though because I actually haven't played a round of golf in like a year. Last week I took golf up again and practiced about 3 times on the range/pitching green. I pretty much quit with so much tennis and school going on, but was lured back after watching the Accenture on T.V. I also want to note that I read forums/literature on TGM and ABS and practice on the range/practice green way more than I actually play. That's bad, but I usually don't have the time to devote to a round, and don't really know anyone that plays golf at all.

- Paul

So I figure you don't have a proper release and you haven't sorted out how to trap the ball in a manner that can produce a draw.

In that case I think you should focus on:

rope handling

sequenced release

dual horizontal hinging

These three combine very well. And you will find appropriate info about them her on LBG. You should practice the hinge action on short shots first to get a feel for it. And while you're at it you might as well try out the angled hinging and the vertical hinging as well. They have different rhythms and they all come in handy.

You may want to bring your club and your right elbow slightly closer to your body at address. This will give you some more lag to work with through the ball. Your pivot looks pretty good and ready for powerful ball striking.

I like the way your club moves dtl. But you got some issues with the way your hips work. Look at your head motion and you can kinda get a feel for it. Your head drop down ala Hogan and Tiger but you never get your hips forward and open and up like Eldrick and Hogan. See pic below. That deal with your right arm staying bent to me looks like a radius issue. Since your head has dropped you cant really stretch it out or you'll crash the ground behind the ball. Look at how far back your butt is compared to Hogan. your head ends up infront of your hips. So you got like reverse tilt. I'd like to see you a. load #2 (left wrist cock faster on the backstroke. b. get some standard knee action (see pics) c. Get the hips forward, open and up . . . . that will keep the face from flashing so much. Note how Snead's hands are more "crossed over" than Hogan and how much more forward and open Hogan is with his hips. You could try hitting some shots where you feel like you are looking underneath the ball through the shot. So your head stays back and your hips go forward and turn. Not how your right knee is so bent. That indicates that you are sliding the hips forward as the turn . . . . you're just turning. Note Snead's right knee compared to hogan . . . more bent . . . but he does have axis tilt more than you. You could put your head on a door frame and practice this. Also you could kinda stick a ball on a tee close to your right ankle . . . look at your foot work. It's like you are putting out a cigarette or squashing a roach. You kneed to feel like your right ankle is going to lay down on the ground via your hips going forward and streching out your right leg. Look at hogans foot work compared to your. . . that right leg tells a story of no forward and turning only. Note how hogan's right heel is LEADING . . . yours is popping up . . . due to how your lower half is working. All that being said . . . your club moves nice dtl. Arms work nice. Work on the pivot and you'll be nasty good. Should get that face to move more uniform and slow it down. Less variation in where your ball starts. Do you hit cuts when you miss it?

Very interesting observation there Bucket. Nice.

Slice 'O Day, you're probably noticing a slightly different take on things around here than you are maybe reading in those other places. Your still bent right arm, your flat shoulder turn in Finish, versus the accent on radius, extension, plane line. If those things are by design that is. That first picture of Hogan is great eh? Thats what I want be like when I grow up.

I see the inside move after impact that I think Bucket is referring to as well. Your club shaft not pointing down the plane line, your arms not extending.

Not saying this is you but here is a common set of unfortunate events that can befall the guys who bend their plane line to the left:

-given a square clubface at separation they get a cut.
-the cut begets a subconscious flip which closes down the clubface and produces a straight shot but to the left, a pull. And weak one.
-which is fixed consciously (with the plane line) or , more often, subconsciously, by aiming out to right field. Leaving the guy with a sometimes straight but always weak shot courtesy of a mess of compensations.

Think of it in terms of the balls flight being the product of different forms of Thrust with different associated directional Vectors. In the ideal theses vectors though different are more focused. That is the best we can hope for. Compensations however de focus the vectors with ball flight ramifications.

Every golfer is subject to compensations similar to the above in some manner or other. The solution is to recognize what is required geometrically , where you comply and where you dont and then set about fixing them. Its always a guided journey as you need a second set of educated eyes. Quite frankly we just dont see or feel some of the wacky stuff we are up to. It sounds like a difficult diagnostic to make but in this regard Homer would probably point out something like:

"Well, the Plane Line governs the ClubHEAD line of flight and the ClubFACE governs the balls line of flight".

So fix your plane line compliance (clubshaft), your HInge Action (clubface) and given proper Rhythm (clubhead) you'll be hitting bullets in no time. You'll notice that everything in brackets put together comprises the entire golf club. So total control of those three items will give you total control of the golf club. Total control of the golf club will give you total control of the golf ball.

I use this youtubedownloader deal . . . y'all should check it out you can download stuff off youtube to your 'puter . . . I step framed his stuff. From DTL his club moves NICE in my opinion. I would think this cat could hit the ball pretty much where he's looking if the face doesn't flap around.

If you watch his video his head drops pretty significantly a startdown . . . eldrick does this but he gets away with it because he keeps sliding his hips forward and turning 'em. this cat don't so his arms "shrink up" so he doesn't hit it fat. That'd be my take anyhow.

You were framed
 

Where is this downloader Senior 12 Piece?

Ok just watched the DTL video and yes to my naked eye the shaft does look very good, like its pointing at the plane. REally nice. I thought Id see it moving more inside after looking at the first photo in Buckets post above. Apologies to you Slice Of d'Day.

Bucket, Drew, in general, lack of extension or radius..... Getting to Both Arms Straight, thrusting down and out towards the plane line post Low Point all the way up to and including Follow Through, it "completes" the Orbit right? 1-L-15. So is that Clubhead control then? In the trilogy of total control. Which reminds me I have to call my wife.

http://youtubedownloader.com/

may infect your 'puter now . . . but did good for me. you can download anything from youtube . . . convert to mp3/4 or whatever. It's free pretty neat program. you can get all that hogan video out there!

Bucket, BerntR, and O.B., thanks so much for the insight. What Bucket is saying about the hips and right heel makes a lot of sense. I ended up practicing a bit today on the chipping green trying to get comfortable with a basic motion stroke. I had that amazing "eureka" or epiphany moment after hitting a few with the #1 accumulator into the angled hinge. For the first time, my contact was in the center leaving marks there instead of off the toe, and I really felt the "Both arms straight" angled hinge release and the compression of the ball. My dispersion was tight and pretty accurate. Can't wait to get this out onto the range into acquired motion and full motion with the hips moving forward and out/trying to attack on the 4:30 line. I very much appreciate all of the help you guys have provided, and I'm going to take some video the next time I go out.

- Paul

When I look at these two pics I see Hogan STRETCHED OUT EVERYWHERE . . . look how "long" everything is. Right leg stretched out . . . left leg stretched out . . . even his chest and stomach are stretched out. . . .

The other cat looks "concave" everywhere . . . knee, chest, hips, arms all kinked in . .. like if you just took the dude and stretched him out . . . it'd be good. That club moves nice on plane I thought.

Who am I?
 

Thats such a great photo of Hogan. Thanks for sharing what you see there, Bucket. Tell me if this is what you kinda mean pivot wise. The momentum of the passing power package or lever assembly or whatever pulls target wards while the head and diagonally braced left side resist and also extend (in a bend and extend manner) against the pull? How am I doing here?

Here is another fella, getting all stretched out. Anyone guess who this is? Crap Drew is gonna get this 1st crack at it I bet.


http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/a...d=126799977 2

Great post of 12 something:eyes: but that's not totally unexpected.

Question is: What do you do to make everything stretch as per Ben Hogan?

IMO, timing and sort of aiming point has a lot to do with it. If you try to swing your hands back to where they were at address you will not get there. If you try to drive your hands and club towards the dirt - somewhere deep behind the ball - perhaps even behind your right foot - you will feel the pressure. And If you keep driving there and pulling - your pivot will keep turning. And before you know it you've hit the ball with a lot of pivot power. Harder than you've ever done before And if you're lucky the club weights a tonn at impact (hint: Heavy club feel means good acceleration).

I have been struggling with this concept for a while now... When I try to cock the left wrist with the right elbow, the fleshy pad of my left thumb slides down approx an inch from the cup in my right hand. To maintain the snug fit of fleshy pad of left hand in the cup of my right hand without cocking the right wrist, I have to rotate both forearms slightly anti clockwise. Is that ok?

Thanks OB for your very valuable posts in this forum.

Paul

You shouldn't try to cock it with your right elbow. You should simply let it happen when it happens.

Think of where you want to have your hands at the top (or at the end) of the back stroke. Bring the hands there with a quiet (Yoda says frozen I think) right wrist. One that is level and bent. This motion - the pickup of the club with a quiet right wrist - will cock the left wrist as a "side effect". It is a geometrical necessity.

Keeping the right wrist quiet while during the back stroke is a winner as far as getting in a good position at the top because it promotes a good rhythm. In many ways it's the opposite of deliberately trying to cock the left wrist, something that can be a stroke wrecker.

Bernt is feeling it Id say. Love his last sentence there and think that is the tremendous simplicity and efficiency that a Hitter feels (assuming he starts from Fix). He just maintains those Impact Hands and takes them up and down a Plane without much thought to Left Wrist Cock or Right Hand bending. The Swinger who never goofs with Hitting will have a tough time discovering or understanding the tremendous advantage of the frozen right wrist (and getting to both arms straight but thats another story).

Swingers or Hitters who starts back from Adjusted Address, Mid Body Hands have to go from a Bent Left/Flat Right set of hands to Impact Hands dynamically. Which isnt easy to find. You only want the amount of Right Wrist Bend you prescribed at Fix , no more, no less. Each ball position will be different right. I found out the hard way that its not a "the more the better " thing with the bending Right Hand. An over Bending of the Right Hand at Top will often arch the Left! Grip type can really contribute to this predicament. Especially if you tend to an neutral Left , strong Right grip which I did, now Ive got my Right Hand on top a bit and no amount of over bending the Right Hand could by itself arch the Left Hand.

I believe one of Homers biggest obstacles was that a great golf swing often appears to be more rubber wristed than it actually is. Its hard to adopt structure (longer levers) for instance when you think Hogan had "loose wrists" or something. Mention something like that in front of Lynn and run for cover, baby. "There isnt anything LOOSE about it". "The universal joint may be free to move in certain ways but it is NOT LOOSE IN ANY WAY" etc etc. And he has one nice Snap Release and some serious #2 Angle on him, Lynn does. I made that mistake one time, Luke was there and he was just grinning from ear to ear at me as Lynn started to get all fired up. Structure was a tough sell for Homer a lot of times. I have a feeling there is a long lineage of students who get that lesson. From Homers first A.I.s all the way on down. Homer was very resolute about it to say the least. I can however honestly say that my bad spells can still be attributed to searching out #2 angle the wrong way. Dont tell LYnn please. That #2 Angle is just so dang beautiful, I cant help myself sometimes. Sort of like Ulysses and the Sirens.............yes two Homers each with their own Sirens. The original ones were beautiful and beguiling songstresses, Mr Kelley's were rubber wristed. Both of em will kill you.

Plgolfer, do you mean your Left Thumb extends as you cock the Left Wrist? There is a photo of Hogan at Top where his Left Thumb is shockingly long. Some say it has extended during the swing, some say his Left Thumb wasnt as short at Address as he maintained. So, its hard to say whats going on for you without seeing it. Maybe your Left Hand is trying to get a better place? A place it wants to be. Or maybe not? To see where it should be, where its strongest try hitting shots with just your left Hand on the club and see what grip you adopt automatically or try bending the shaft against a door frame or some immovable object. Your grip (and a bunch of other alignments) will morph into a good position. That left thumb wants to be on the aft at Impact! Mine does, but it also wants to be on top of the shaft at address for some reason. It still fears the left side of the fairway that thumb of mine, its conflicted, despite the fact I hit fades now.

The thing about the Magic of the Right Forearm, 7-3 for me was that in order for the bending right elbow to get all of that tremendous list of stuff done, bring all that simplification to the party, ...........I had to turn off all of my old ways. Those are hard switches to find let alone turn off. Itll take some work and each of us has a different list of old ways. For me, some went all the way back to my earliest golf years. My list included .......Left Side pushaway, hand rolling under plane with an arched left hand (that wont want to cock), "rocking the triangle".... two straight arms going back with the right elbow locked, lifting the arms with the arms etc etc the list is long and still being compiled. I had to remove these blockages, these actions, to avoid the conflict of actions, to simplify, to see glimpses of the Magic Homer refers to. Search out things that prevent your Right Elbow from Bending, "on its own" as Bernt said. That would be good first place to check.

Keep working on it. It'll make more sense as you get further into it.

I forgot about the address position. That is important. You have to be more handsy from adjusted address than from fix. But that should be more of a fanning motion than a cocking motion.

I am not 100% TGM in my takeaway and I don't know if I'll ever be. That is one of the reasons I say quiet right wrist and not frozen.

But nevertheless, quiet/frozen right wrist works very well as a key in the back stroke.

No. What I mean is: At address if I cock my left wrist by lifting the shaft vertically with the mid finger of my right hand I need to relax the grip of my right hand to maintain a level right wrist.The life line cup in my right hand will then dissociate/slide
above the base of my left hand.

Yoda shows this cocking action of the left wrist in the dvd series with the fingers of his right hand lifting the shaft. But then he was not gripping the club in the usual way. Thanks for your clarifications. I wonder if I am missing some major alignement here.

Ok now I know what you mean. I cant remember how Yoda did it in Alignment Golf , Ill have to look it up. With the club in front of you, the hands at waist height and a proper golf grip , you get what you describe. Which is why Ive seen it demonstrated from that position with the hands spread apart a significant distance. Then things work as advertised. Like a construction crane or one of those common screen door type automatic door closers. A hinge and a Piston type deal. The Bending Elbow cocks the Left Wrist while Right Hand stays level, doesnt cock. The Hands being so close together make it harder to see the crane like mechanics in play, the shortening of the piston increasing the angle at the other side of the triangle.

Now try it with a golf grip but from a more golf like position or point at which this business normally takes place. The Hands behind you somewhat as if on the backswing. There you should see the Right Elbow work some Magic. If not then make sure that your Right Arm is not locked straight, that you arent over rotating the shoulders, "rocking the triangle". Its a Magic killer that one. Sort of like replacing the door closers piston with a fixed length rod.

There are people who are convinced the right hand must cock with with the left. I used to be. How the heck did Homer figure this one out? It will bring so much simplicity, consistency and added power to your game. The RFFW stays in tact throughout the entire swing and smacks the crap out of the ball. The ball hasnt got a chance. It's a mechanical alignment again. Like a wall built perpendicular to a floor. Its just the way it works best thats all. Its not a golf move or tip or opinion or anything. Its a longer, heavier lever that the ball can not resist as it passes. And remember the bit about Ball Speed being a product of 70 percent of the Approach speed and 100 percent of the Separation speed. There is something to be said power wise about reducing Impact deflection. Another example of why Homer thought it was better to be "heavy' than "quick". This RFFW is truly "massive".

Dont cock your Right Wrist and lose the RFFW ,the plane of the Right Hand Bend even for a short while. The perceived benefits dont justify the risk. Besides you have the Left Wist cock or the Right Elbow to give you all the velocity you need. If you were a one armed golfer maybe it would be a different story for Total Motion. Maybe?

Got it OB, thanks for your comprehensive reply. With the arms at a distance, would you agree that as the left wrist cocks, there is a slight corresponding anti clockwise rotation of the right forearm?

Hmm. I want to say no but without the benefit of knowing your Alignments I cant say whether this a feel you associate with correct Plane and Face compliance going back or not. For instance, I used to roll my wrists under the plane, Nancy Lopez style. The correction felt like a reverse roll to me but it wasnt really. Does the right forearm rotate anti clockwise due to something the right elbow is doing, flying out or something? What type of #3 pressure point are you loading , the first joint in the index finger or the Knuckle? Hmm? Does the left forearm rotate too? If no and its just a right forearm rotation then maybe you need to research RFT, fanning and bending, the Right Arm Pickup, the Indian chiefs "how" like move of Alignment Golf. Are you lawnmower cord pulling with a flying right elbow?

To answer this question for yourself take a look at you Startup and Backswing. If one end the of the club or the other points at the Plane Line you are Plane Line Compliant, ClubSHAFT. I like to slide the butt end of grip out 6 inches or so see where its pointing better. If your Left Wrist is Perpendicular to one of the Three Basic Planes (Horizontal, Vertical or Angled as in the Inclined Plane) in Startup you are executing a Hinge Action and controlling the ClubFACE.

Typically a Reverse Roll is associated with Vertical Hinging an intentional manipulation of the clubface to reduce compression and increase loft as in a Flop Shot say. That it why I wanted to say NO at first glance. But what may feel like something to you may in fact be something else in terms of Alignments and so you must look, LOOK, LOOK at you club shaft and club face to answer the question yourself. Something we should all do while practicing or warming up, every day.

Get these two functions of the golf club, Clubshaft and Clubface Aligned correctly and you need only add Clubhead control to have total control over the entire golf club and therefore the ball as well. Sounds easy eh?

PS Sometimes whats at issue is the Vertical only Plane of the Left Wrist cock, The Left Arm Flying Wedge. You must maintain this Plane of Motion in your Left Hand Wrist Cock. To see what this is, is to see what condition your Left Wrist will be in when fully cocked. It is seldom literally flat. Its referred as "flat" or "geometrically flat" but it isnt truly flat for most grip types anyways. With just your left hand on the club, you LAFW in line, cock the club up vertically in front of you, like a hammering motion. See how a "neutral " left hand grip will show some additional bend at Top. Neutral still being slightly turned over on to top of the shaft. Let your left arm dangle at your side without a club in it to see how it rests at approx a 45 degree angle to the Plane Line. Neutral is not the back of the left hand facing the target! That is weak. And probably another of golfs "seems as ifs" or false logics. Why is are the hands aligned at angles like that? Hand to mouth takes takes precedence over Hand to Target in an evolutionary sense! Maybe millions of years from now things will evolve to a more golf centric alignment, in the mean time lets just turn the Hands a bit. Each grip type will have a different look at Top when you isolate the plane of the left wrist cock like this. This is what it must look like when you Look , Look , Look at it during a practice stroke or startdown waggle. To NOT achieve this correct left hand condition at Top is to have introduced some Horizontal left wrist motion into what should have been a purely Vertical Plane of Motion as in your hammer drill.

The LAFW , the RFFW one operates on a vertical plane (the plane of the left wrist cock) the other on a horizontal plane (the plane of the Right Hand Bend). They are aligned at 90 degrees to each other. One running through the Top and Bottom of the shaft , one through the For and Aft of the shaft. Each with its own associated pressure points. One plane thrusted by the swinger the other by the Hitter, normally, classically. Now we're getting into the real meat of Homers revelation. But to get there , to use it, you have to comply with the Alignments or suffer from the complications and the compensations they require. Its the uncompensated swing that we should seek not a set of positions, or maneuvers that typically have no accompanying consideration for the proper Alignments.

Im rambling again sorry, I just started some holidays and am really fired up to play some golf down in Florida. Let me at it. I feel like Tiger about to enter a Perkins or something, pre Thanksgiving 2009.

A nice drill to check the takeaway is to get into an impact fix position, then lift the club up to chest high and turn the shoulders 90 degrees, without changing anything about the hands and arms.

That is a decent check on mid/top position, and you can then turn to face the new direction and lower the arms back down to see if you are still in an impact fix position (no turn or roll).

This is also a good way to see if the arms have gotten too 'deep'.

fix/top/impact/finish should have the SAME alignments for the hands and arms.

So a quick update: I've been working at improving my pivot, footwork, and have been trying to work on attacked from the 4:30 line or elbow plane. I'm still having major inconsistency issues with fats, hosel hits, pulls, pushes, solids, and the occasional hook or push slice. My low point is off, and I'm all over the map. My pivot still looks pretty bad, I can't seem to implement the advice given by you guys. Again I want to thank you for being generous with your advice. Here are some newer videos, the face on being from a different session where I struggled with a super inside takeaway. Thanks again everyone

DTL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eepWbN5HOc
Rear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBQ9djgMTeA
Face On: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq_cVPTLce0

A link to a photo album of screenshots/stills: http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y77...n/Screenshots/

Hi OB. Let me ask about the RFFW.
 

My angles are different due to my imbalances (emotional and physical). So, let's pretend we are speaking about everyone. The right hand only cocks so far as the address position and no further? :confused1

My RF takeaway is like me throwing my right thumb over my shoulder as if I were hitch-hiking and I can see at least two creases in my right wrist. And, while most of my shots are much better given a 21 hcp., hitting a 7 iron 155 with some roll and a driver 230 ish straight, is not really championship flight stuff. Our club champ is 30 yards in front in our reg foursome and our "B" champ is 15 yards in front our reg foursome. :sleepy:

You are indicating that if I maintain that tiny address right hand address and simply treat the whole RFFW below the elbow as a solid bronze cast, and either swing or hit, I will have much less compensation and inefficient power to my strike?

If my forearm is that solid, it will be harder to feel pp #3! :(

Patrick

Down and through
 

Sliceoftheday,

I think your pivot looks quite good. I know a lot of single handicappers who doesn't look nearly as good as this. Swing plane looks good too.

But you're not using the pivot correctly though.


Pic 16-17-18 shows that you have an outside-in motion while the other guy is turning properly through the ball.

Pic 16: His hands are lower, he has more Accumulator #2 angle and he has much more shoulder turn left. He is positioned to swing the club straight down and straight through the ball.

If you from pic 16 were able to turn your shoulders on a very steep plane (by hip tilt) you could keep the swing plane and get away with it with flying colors (and perhaps a bad back after a few years). But your hands aren't going down under. Instead your shoulders are turning out to the left field. And this brings your hands - and then your club outsidde the swing plane. And I bet you loose a lot of lag pressure too.

Frame by frame you need to get your hands quicker down towards the ground. Your hands. Not your club head. The longer you let the club point towards the sky, the faster it will release. And you need to somehow delay your basically horizontal shoulder turn through those very same frames. Get your hands under your right shoulder - not around it.

So how do you get the hands quicker down? Three things that can help: 1) More forward bend from the hips at address (but I think you look good already), 2) More hula-hula: A little hip tilt in the back swing and some more forward hip tilt in the down swing. Hip tilt from the top can get your hands down pretty quick. 3) By pressing down with your right arm. Eventually you will have to turn your shoulders out of the way, but that will produce on-plane power if your hands are low enough when it happens.

If you have the yellow book you should look up "aiming point" it may get you a long way without thinking about a lot of body parts. Or you can use Ian Wosnam's old swing thought: "Down. And (then turn) through".

PS: Watch the pictures above of yourself, Hogan and Snead earlier in this thread. Your shoulders are quite as steep as theirs on the top of the back swing. But see how flat your shoulders are at impact and how much steeper their's are at impact.

Was mr. Woosnam a swinger or hitter? Does bending over more at hips mean turning on the shoulder plane/one plane?

Thanks.

I don't know whether Woosie is a swinger or a hitter. It is not always something you can see. In fact, I suspect that most top golfers blend swinging and hitting quite well.

Bending more will steepen your shoulder turn somehow. But you will not be able to turn them on any swing plane. Not with a conventional stroke anyway. Moe Norman was pretty close though. With his single axis swing.

Moving the hips forward during transition is a bigger contributor to steepening the back shoulder. But the hips alone isn't all that's to it either.

Turning your torso away from the ball (compress the right side, stretch the left) also can do a lot to bring the hands and club down on the right path.

BerntR,

Thanks for the reply. Do you think what you are advocating could be accomplished with more waist bend/knee flex on the DS/through impact than at address/through the BS to the top? This seems to be a characteristic of many of the game's great ballstrikers of the past.

You dont cock the right wrist at all. Cocking being a vertical motion. The only Right Wrist motion allowed for is horizontal , bending, assuming you start at Adjusted Address. If you start at Fix on the other hand , then freeze it , no bending required. If you start at Adjusted, with a flat right wrist, you need to re establish the degree of bend you prescribed at Fix dynamically.

This should not effect your ability to sense the lagging condition of the clubhead vis a vis the hands. Lag pressure at the #3pp.

Dude you have some really nice things going on in this golf swing. But you can fix a lot of those issues by cleaning up your pivot.

This is a beautiful picture here . . . . love the arm position . . . really nice.



Arms working really nice here too . . . I wish I could get this look. But here you can see you are starting to spin open too much.



Here's your issue . . . you have NO axis tilt . . . your hips are stalled out . . .








Compare your vertical spine to these . . . Hips gotta turn AND SLIDE.



You need to hit TONS of shots where you stop just slightly above this position . . . you want to finish with your legs straight and stretched out . . . hips up . . . feel like you are pinching a penny in your butt cheeks . . . finish with your arms stretched out and the club below or in line with your hands . . . not recocked. You need to learn how to control low point and extend the radius of the swing . . . full lever extension. For you it should probably feel like NO TURNING . . you already know how to turn thru the ball . . . you need to learn how to slide your hips forward and get your tea cup tilted.


You need to tatoo this picture to your forehead. Note how your arms are "all shrinked up" . . .

Notice how much farther forward, up and turned Hogan's hips are than Ernies . . . not the clubface on els . . . once your hips stop going the face is going to flash fast . . . .

I am by no means a swing expert, but her's how I see it:

I think your pivot looks pretty good already. I don't think what happens from the hips and down prevents you from pureing the ball.

You need to pay attention to what your hands are doing with the club. I suspect that you have a steering tendency deep down somewhere in your brains; Small grey cells that are convinced that you will slice it big time unless you force the club to close. And that kind of thinking tends to have the opposite effect of the intended. And it's a swing speed waister as well. That's why a lot of slicers hit some of their biggest slices when there's disaster on the right side of the fairway.

There is also an element of rhythm involved in squaring the club face naturally. If you drive your hands too much forward in the down swing (like a hitter) it will tend towards a fade / slice. This is called angled hinging. What you should aim for is called "dual horizontal hinging". You'll find a lot about it here if you use the search function. But it basically deals with how the club face should move in in the swing - and the rhythm required to make it happen. There's an element of pivot & hands timing/synchronisation that can often make the difference between a slice and a hook.