OTT move cured by Float Loading?
 

Any ideas why this would be the case?

I don't normally float load but I started experimenting with it tonight and the OTT move that I have been struggling with is greatly diminished if not completely removed.

I'm guessing its because the arms and upper body get a bit more passive?

Any other ideas? I'm not sure if I want to stick with float loading, I guess I'm not against it.

I'm just curious what you guys think.

I think swing mechanics can be learned, practiced and execution improved more readily if you select component variations as compatible as possible.

Also, I think it helps if your Stroke Pattern can be applied to all lengths of stroke.

I wouldn't give up on trying to solve your OTT issues. Eventually, while solving them, you'll learn a lot about your swing.

But, for a Swinger using the Rope Handle Procedure, OTT should never be an issue. With the Clubshaft in your hands, the #2 and #3 Pressure Points combined, gives you awareness of the Plane Angle of the Clubshaft and where it's pointing on the Baseline of the Inclined Plane or Target Line or Delivery Line. So, it's vital, that after loading the Pressure Points that those Pressure never change during the Downstroke, especially the #3 PP.

The #3 Pressure Point has ONLY enough Pressure to allow you to sense the Clubshaft angle and direction. DO NOT Load the #3 Pressure Point any more than that (Until you're an expert - trust me). Then, Thrust is always along that Angle and direction. You are trying to pull the shaft lengthwise. ANY additional Pressure on the #3 Pressure Point WILL CAUSE Clubhead Throwaway. Additionally, you will come Over-The-Top because you can't control your Pivot.

BUT, and this is the most important part. If you use the Rope Handle Procedure precisely as I'm describing, You will always and Automatically trace the Plane Line and your hands will control the Pivot and you will never come-over-the-Top again.

By Learning and Adopting the Rope Handle Procedure (AKA longitudinal acceleration - Drag Loading) your hands will trace the Plane Line with Circle Path or to the Aiming Point with a Straight Line Delivery Path. You'll discover, that by doing so, your Pivot will respond to your attempts, and move and help automatically. You'll have no choice but to do almost everything correctly. You should use 10-2-B.

All that you need to remember, is to pull down (preferably the Power Package does the Pulling) as though you were ringing a bell with a rope handle, don't load the #3 and don't allow any changes in PP Pressure during the Downstroke.



Float Loading is dangerous for a Swinger. The Clubshaft "Bangs" against the #3 Pressure Point but your hands are far enough along so if your hands are fast enough, you can sustain that pressure through Impact. It's more appropriate for a Hitter, though I've seen many Swingers using it.

I will upload a video in a bit.

It isn't a huge over the top move. The club reaches the top more or less on plane and then despite the fact that the hands remain perfectly on plane the club head ticks forward towards the back of my head.

But when I float load, its just perfectly on plane the entire time.

This leads me to believe it is somewhere in my right arm/wrist/hand or something because with float loading my waggles prepare that arm to be instantly passive at the top and accept whatever the pivot throws at it.

My guess based on what you are saying is that float loading is allowing you to clear the right hip coming down. When you aren't float loading, you may be having a right hip collision (roundhouse).

As the pics above show - keep your pull moving down to the plane line, and chances are good you'll clear the right hip nicely.

Key on the feel of the shoulders being closed (right shoulder back) until your hands pass your chin. you won't get there, but that 'feel' can help

The film will be interesting if you want to put it up.

Float Loading has the Right Elbow bend increasing (Magic) .......so maybe that is the source of the bounce over the plane? Hard to say.

Or maybe there is some minor under plane Hand Motion say, then a little "equal and opposite" over plane bounce in transition. I can sometimes get just slightly laid off at End after some Horizontal Left Hand motion, a slight arch to the left Hand, then a bounce back over the plane in transition. Float Loading will cure it for me too, but only because I need to fix the left hand wrist cocking plane (vertical motion only no horizontal) to be able to Float Load in the first place. The arch just doesnt want to cock for me, I need a slightly bent left hand. Which is consistent with my grip type and a pure vertical left hand wrist cock plane of motion. Geometrically flat but actually bent.



As an aside, Ive always been a little confused by Homers division of Drive , Drag and Float Loading. Homer had Float Loading labeled as "Hit or Swing" but Im wondering if its possible to be Three Accumulator Hitter and Float Load? It sure feels like Drag Loading but with a later loading to me! Arrow from quiver, longitudinal acceleration, loading the #3pp at the knuckle as opposed to the first joint, the pivot pulling the Hands down plane with a strong sense of a tug at the #2pp...........It goes nicely with a Shoulder Throw. Super nicely with a Lagging Takeaway.

Four Accumulator Hitting and Float Loading I can see but is it possible to Float and then thrust, Three Accumulator Hit? Wouldnt that have the Right Shoulder hanging back while the Right Elbow bends and Loads in Startdown, then a Drive Out. I can imagine it but it seems kinda weird to me. Maybe I got things all mixed up again.

What is this "Load and Throw" tendency all about? It is a real problem. I have a pal who loads like Hogan but immediately tosses it all away. He's so close to golfing bliss. And so far away too. Im guilty of it too unless Im swinging at dandelions in my yard. Put the ball in front of me and I toss it. Homer said that most pro's are in the process of throwing the club, they're just better at it. He had some exceptions of course, Trevino for one.

Why do we not sustain the Lag Pressure when confronted with the ball? There must be a cure. Staying away from #3 pressure is like staying away from love, isnt it?

The #3 PP pushes against the Shaft which is Radial Pressure (bad for Swingers). When the Hands slightly slow as Throwout occurs then hand speed can't sustain the lag because the shaft jolts away from the #3 PP like it's jumping off a trampoline. Technically, it's still called swinging.

It's a bad situation because the harder you swing, the worse the Trampoline problem becomes. The Clubhead ends up leading the Shaft into Impact and Rolling is out of the question, and Angled Hinging becomes firmly implanted into your Stroke Pattern. An Experienced Player can overcome this problem because His Pivot is responsible for the #3 Accumulator Roll and he can manipulate the acceleration of the secondary lever.

Pulling on a Bell's Rope Handle offers more than enough Clubhead Lag feel while the #3 PP is used only for sensing direction and Plane Angle.

Clubhead Lag is when the Clubshaft Bends while overcoming Clubhead Inertia at Start-down.

Oh, one last important point. You cannot use the Rope Handle procedure if you shift to the Elbow Plane during the Downstroke. They are Incompatible Procedures. Plane Shifters can use a somewhat similar procedure called "grip it and rip it". Grip firmly.

For further explanation for using the #3 PP for sensing only, see Post #2 in this thread...

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/thread2837.html

Thanks D

Post #2 is great but post #1 was just what I was looking for. Gonna give that a try on the range tomorrow. Ive been throwing the club lately and actually getting pretty close to really throwing a club or two. A straight line from the #3 pp at Top to the Aiming Point. How'd I miss that one. Bungee jumping! Rose Bud.

Ill be on TV soon, I can feel it. And it aint gonna be on Cops this time, never again.

Daryl, thanks for the very informative post! It is very cool to work through the lengthy details in constructing a more effective motion. I know we are in a swinger's room so I'll stick to that overall concept with this question.

While swinging, a forward lateral hip slide seems to "invite" the vertical hinge to slide down-plane. I've watched Yoda's movie about the vertical hinge and throwing it down at the ball. I did it yesterday, I think, planting and firing the vertical hinge down-plane. My angle hinges came up short and right , but my horizontal hinges stayed on-target a long time. One 5 wood went in from 180 yards for a birdie. Three other shots went running over the green winding up almost directly behind the flag in the fringe. (Being pin-high is fun, as is being on target.) (I should've putted those balls out of the thick rough but, "Noooooo," I had to try the perfect chip adding 8 extra strokes to my score!)

So, is that what is meant by "throwing the vertical hinge down?" Can a person supercharge a swing by planting and throwing that vertical hinge down-plane, or snapping the VH down? The short and right result would be bad ball placement or funky impact positions?

This is the big one for me.

This is entire post defines my problem in a nut shell.

I can practice swing with drag loading with no problem
I can practice swing with float loading with no problem
I can actually swing with float loading with no problem
I cannot actually swing with drag loading without going OTT

The Clubshaft is on the Elbow Plane at the Top of the Swing. The Float Loading shifts the Shaft to - dead on - the Turned Shoulder Plane which you continue into Impact.

The Float Load is difficult to see from Down the Line, but you execute this beautifully. You make it look easy. Nice Pivot and Hip Action too.

You still need 4 more inches of right shoulder travel.

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Hi innercityteacher,

I have no idea what "throwing the vertical hinge down" means.

Thank you for the compliment.

For some reason float loading just makes sense to me. My entire body feels very relaxed up to the top and I know as soon as I get the club up there I can just let everything drop and turn like crazy.

What had me struggling horribly was sensing the #3 PP at the top and having it do what I wanted it to rather than what it wanted to (which was hit me in the back of the head).

With float loading I can make it stay, move under plane, or move over plane at will.



That said, I'm still not quite sure how to get that right shoulder more down plane.

Another fun thing about this is with a normal drag load or drive load I'm not so noisy.

As soon as I started experimenting with the float loading and accepting that huge lag load onto #3 PP without dumping it got very, very noisy in my garage.

It literally sounds like war is being waged in my garage at impact.

It is a very, very loud crack. Told my wife who can actually hear it in the bedroom now over the TV and she's like "that is a good thing right?" :salut:



Just took another video of my swing with a line placed on my shoulder at address and I'm maybe getting one inch under that line at impact.

Any ideas as to how to get more I am all ears.

The Drills video-uncocking the left wrist.
 

Here is the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVws0CQqTDc

Yoda is saying that some people make the mistake "in Thinking" that the purpose of Uncocking the Left Wrist is to make the club head move forward toward the target (a Forward Motion). Thinking this way invites trouble because it's a major cause of Bending the Left Wrist.

He further states that "Changing your perception of the Left Wrist Cocking and Uncocking Motion" is the first step in correcting the problem.

Yoda says that Cocking and Uncocking is a Vertical Motion; Up and down, like when you hammer a nail. If you tilt the Plane, as in the Golf Swing, the motion is still up and down (vertical). Changing the Plane Angle does not change the fact that Uncocking is a Vertical Motion.

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I think that you are saying, that you discovered, that an accentuated Hip Slide causes you to create a more Downward Swing motion and that it causes a more downward throw-out of the Clubhead when the Left Wrist Uncocks.

If you'll pardon the analogy, I think that you and Yoda are in the same "Chapter" but not on the same "Page.

You're mistaking his video as a "Directive" to find a way of creating a Downward Blow. That's the first Mistake. The second mistake is thinking that the Pivot controls the Hands.

It's a long and arduous journey. But, we've chosen the "Red Pill", and our only solution is greater understanding. :)

That is looking really good Grant. Thats an amazing change.

Like D, I see the Float changing the Plane in a good way. And in regard to Yoda's vertical only left hand uncocking video, Id suggest its a slight Horizontal motion to your left wrist cocking that is the problem. So Plane of the Left Wrist Cock and uncock is the issue to my eye, which has implications to your Plane of Motion, Inclined Plane.

Think of it this way............the left arm is above the Inclined Plane at Top and the club lays flat on the Inclined Plane ideally, unless you are taking lessons from Tigers coach. This vertical only wrist cocking will/should see some bend in the left wrist at fully cocked, do it in front of you with one hand to see for yourself. You have a flat left wrist at Top , literally flat, a horizontal motion and the shaft is inline with your left arm as opposed to laying on the Inclined Plane. Then when you float you re align the shaft to the Inclined Plane and your left arm can be seen to be above it again. All is right with the world.

Thats what I see anyways. Its not big by any means. Without re planing it you'd probably bounce over ......like Tiger was doing at the Masters.

The added power would be from a later hit , more right elbow bend later in the swing.




http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/a...d=127349880 2

Thanks, Darly. You are correct. I did read Yoda as saying that more power and shot-making ability would result in sending the left hand down-plane with gusto.

It felt pretty good whether the hips were leading or the right forearm was pushing down on the wrist to produce the vertical motion. I was hoping such a vertical release would keep me on the inclined plane making me a better golfer (younger looking and popular, too).

And, I do want the understanding given the correct presuppositions of G.O.L.F

It is true that sending the Uncocking Motion Downplane (vertical motion) will make you a better Golfer. You are correct and Yoda IMHO would completely agree. If you're not sure that you hit down, then assume you didn't.

I also completely agree with you that this will make you feel younger, have a more positive attitude, make you better looking, and popular and have almost any girl you want. Look what it did for Tiger Woods. :laughing9