Flying Wedges.
 

I have been reading (and watching) about this topic, but I still have no grasp of why it is important - and in what way.

I think it has something with the right forearm, the bent right wrist and the flat left wrist to do - but what? Is the important thing to have the right forearm and the clubshaft on line at address and the left forearm and the clubschaft on line at impact - but so what? Doesn't the right arm begin to straighten in the downswing - what happens to the flying wedge then - does it disapear or change shape and what are the consequences? Why is this flying wedge business so important? Is it the angles and/or the plane this is about?

BTW does this have anything to do with the L position between the clubshaft and the left arm in the backswing? I just don't get it. It's the wedges that is the problem - what to do with them in what fashion? The flying aspect is probably just the movement/motion of the swing?

Do leverage and lag have anything with this to do?

How would you explain this to a 10 year old and if that's too difficult make it a 7 year old.

If you haven't yet and can at all afford it, buy the Alignment Golf DVD's. They explain all. I got mine yesterday and they have explained so much (plus give the drills that you need to put it into play!).

I have it. And I have looked at all the free videos, including Dowels & Wedges, but it doesn't click for me. Therefore I was hoping for a simplified version, suitable for a child.

I don't know if this will help because oversimplifying can lead to misunderstanding. The Left Arm Wedge and the Right Forearm Wedge serve critical but different functions. Using a 10-2-B Grip, they become aligned in a manner that each can maintain its own identity while attached/supporting the other.

Think of an Umbrella (not the best example). The one arm supports the fabric while attached to another arm that pushes it into position. Each arm serves a different function and are connected in a specific way. Each arm needs the other to perform its own function. Like I said, bad example.

Flying wedges:

The left wrist is flat at all times (geometrically flat - you can use a strong grip) The left wrist is only allowed to cock and uncock. When you hold the club out in front of you it is a strictly vertical up and down motion in the wrist. That's all you should allow your left wrist to do before both arms stright towards the finish.

The right wrist is frozen*, bent and level until both arms straight. When you take the club back you shall enable the left wrist cock by bending the right elbow. You can get the left wrist fully cocked and uncocked while maintaining a frozen right wrist. The frozen right wrist will help you keep the rhythm.

The flying wedges takes away a lot of motional freedom that can only ruin a good golf stroke.

There are two planes involved here. The plane of the left flying wedge - the angle between the left arm and the club. That plane is close to vertical at address, but it rotates into the swing plane as you progress on your back swing and rotates back to vertical towards impact.

The other plane is the plane of the right flying wedge. Ideally* it is 90 degree to the left flying wedge and in the swing plane at address and impact. Which meeans thay your right forearm is on the inclined plane (the swing plane) and should look as an extension of the clubshaft at address from down the line.

*I am one of those who don't do this 100% from address because I can't seem to produce a good swing that way. I need to have the hands somewhat lower. I need some slack at address because I impact the ball with more shoulder turn than I can produce at address. Nevertheless my right forearm is on plane at impact. So instead of a frozen left wrist I use a "quiet" left wrist. It is somewhere between cocked and level at address, but it finds its level position half way up in the back swing and stays there until the ball is gone.

Yoda and O.B. Left has a no compromize attitude towards the frozen right wrist and for good reasons. If you can make it work for you, you will get a simpler stroke. But if you need lower hands at address to save your swing dynamics it may be comforting to know that about 95% of the best golfers on the planet seems to do the same. The lighter version of the wedges means that you should still only allow your left wrist to cock and uncock, that there should be very little cocking and uncocking (close to nil) in the right wrist and that there should be no straigtening of the left wrist before impact. You can increase the left wrist bend in the back stroke, but only if you can keep it until past impact.

Whether you go for the hard core, "frozen" right wrist version or the lighter "quiet" right wrist version it should help you develop a better rhythm in the stroke. The flying wedges will impose a lot of restrictions on the rest of the golf stroke, and that is probably the best part of it: They will prevent you from doing a lot of wrongs.

I'm a beginner in the TGM game so take that with a grain of salt but what striked me with the flying wedges concept is how much this defines the plane and make a solid resilient structure. The right arm flying wedge provides a strong support for the left arm flying wedge, similar to the waiter-holding-a-tray image but not only at top, during most of the backswing and downswing. It also seems to support the shaft during the impact interval (optimize club head speed at separation?) and since the right forearm is on-plane, it supports a forward, downward and outward impact. I imagine the right forearm as a support rod for the inclined plane, maybe even defining the plane, and freeing the left side to do its business.. and only that.

If we had to keep the club on plane using only the left arm, it may build tension in the left forearm and might prevent a good release of acc #3. This is just an hypothesis.

Tusen takk.
Thank for pointing out these important things that I can relate to. I think I know how the wrists are supposed to work and what angles to achieve with the club. If that is enough, maybe I can forget the whole wedge idea, because that concept refuses to enter into my brain.

It's probably a good example if one already understands it. I think I know what the hands and wrist are supposed to do. And I am tempted to say like Yoda does - in another sequence - let the wrists and arms do what the wrists and hands do - and forget the whole wedge picture if it doesn't click for me. But maybe it will - one day. Thanks anyway.

You are probably on to something here - keep it up for your own sake - for the time being I'm uncapable of getting this into my head.

BTW - what is a wedge - what is its purpose? Is it related to a Sand - or Pitching Wedge?

En wedge er en kile. Det refererer til vinkelen mellom venstre eller høyre underarm og skaftet.

[/world language:-)]

Jo, men hva brukes den til? Det blir omtrent det samme som en trekant, men det er ikke en fast størrelse, er det vel? Driver den ikke og forandrer fasong ettersom hvor armene befinner seg - f.eks. i nedsvingen hvor høyrearmen rettes (nesten helt) ut - hvilken nytte og verdi har en slik kile annet enn et bilde eller anskueliggjøring av et eller annet. Jeg er sannsynligvis utrolig treig som ikke begriper dette, men jeg jobber med saken med alle mine gode medhjelpere - hvorav du er en av dem. Takk for det.

Det er ikke så viktig at det kalles for kiler. Poenget er å eliminere en del håndleddsbevegelser som er ødeleggende for golfsvingen. Det går an å gjøre utrolig mye rart med håndleddene i baksvingen og nedsvingen. Og mange gjør det. Ting som bør unngås.

Hvis du låser alle bevegeligheter som ikke er i henhold til the flying wedges tar du vekk en hel masse muligheter til å gjøre feil.

Den eneste bevegelsen du skal ha i de to håndleddene er venstre hånd som du kan knekke og rette ut. Men håndleddet skal være flatt hele tiden. Akkumulator #2.

Du kan prøve å holde høyre hånd frossen fra en "impact" addresseposision og så ta hele baksvingen uten å bevege høyre håndledd. Det krever en helt spesiell koordinering og synkronisering mellom hender, armer og skuldre. Det kan føles som det er umulig de første gangene du prøver. I nedsvingen får du drahjelp av sentrifugalkraften så det er litt enklere der hvis du har lært deg å gjøre nedsvingen med skikkelig tyngdeoverføring, hofte og skulderrotasjon, og ikke bare hiver armer og golfkølle mot ballen...

Dette er ikke trivielt, men går rett på kjernen av TGM. Når du får til dette så er du på rett vei.

Bernt.

Ja, dette med hva håndleddene foretar seg, har jeg fått med meg. Det var derfor jeg lurte på om ikke denne del-forståelsen er "godt nok" til å gjennomføre dette "flyende kiler" opplegget i praksis, selv om selve begrepet ikke fører til noen forståelse i seg selv i mitt tilfelle....

I think I am able to get the required educated hands without having educated my brain to understand this "flying wedge" concept.

Let's try a simpler image: picture a table with a single central leg. Your left arm and the shaft move on the table (that's the left arm flying wedge) and the left wrist cocks and uncocks so that the shaft stay there. I take zero effort to maintain the left arm flying wedge on the table. The right forearm is the leg.

Now in the golf swing the tabletop is not horizontal but inclined, and in fact there is no real tabletop but the right forearm can be used so that the left flying wedge moves as if there were a tabletop, staying on plane with no tension.

That's a simplified image of how I picture the role of the flying wedges, please correct me if that's wrong or misleading.

The last sentence about correcting you - that is meant for somebody else, I quess and not me who's completely daft in this matter. I didn't understand your last image either.

I guess TGM and its users want me to see the two arms & hands holding the golf club as some sort of unit ( or 2) and that the backswing and downswing is supposed to be done in such a manner that this unit operates on plane in an effective geometrical manner (or something like that).

I just don't see this geometrical wedge in my head in a meaningfull way, but I know how the wrists are supposed to work and how the impact "position" ( the moment of truth ) should be and I am willing to leave it like that without seeing geometrical figures in my head without understanding their purpose. If I had understood it, it would make me happy - now it only makes me unhappy.

I quess this has a lot to do with angles? But I watched a video on youtube where a guy said - forget the angles - more important is PRESSURE (thru the ball I quess).

Therefore hopefully my body parts are doing it correctly (right wrist bent, left wrist flat and level) and that must be the important thing, not what the remaining body part - my brain inside my head - is understanding about what is going on geometrically spoken. I'm not sure I even understand what I'm saying (does anybody else?) Maybe I am more "positional" in my head than "alignment-oriented"? (Or just empty) A curse?

Isn't this good enough
 

and takes care of any flying wedges issues:

The Left Wrist is always Flat and the Bent Right Wrist is always Level.

Very close.

The Left Wrist is always Flat and the Right Wrist is always Bent and Level.

In the hardcore version, the bend in the right wrist is constant. In any case you should try to minimize the variation of Right Wrist Bend.

Air, if you want a great visual of that principle, watch all the video you can find of Ted Fort... Nobody does it better!

Kevin

His latest? http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/thread7631.html Or any in particular?

Air, do you know these exercises?
 

Air, det desse (MacDonald) øvelser er viktig å kombinere med riktig flygende kiler!


Hi Bernt!


YBGF

MacDonald or Donald Duck?

Look, Air, I'm Google Translating my green fur off!
 

You know how small the keys in my computer lab are for my big green fingers???
:crybaby:

....and my nose makes me clean the screen all the time!

YBGF

I now know who this MacDonald is. I thought you were talking about hamburgers.

After all the ignorance and silly talk on my part over a month ago I think I now understand what these flying wedges are all about. They give structure to the swing and stresses the importance of having the wrists in the correct alignments. (Is that a reasonable way to put it?)

FLYING WEDGES Example – multiple sails on a sail boat.

Mechanical – Push-Pull rams on hydraulic excavators mounted at 90 degrees to each other to position and hold the main beam.

Golf – Maintaining the constant simultaneous In-Line relationship of the Clubshaft with the Left Arm and the Right Forearm positioned at ninety degrees to each other along the Line of the Left Wristcock and the line of the Right Wrist Bend.

It will probably take another month (or more) to get comfortable with this definition. I get more out of it viewing the videos.

A lot more can be said about the wedges but imo this is a good start.

You have already explained a lot in this thread (in Norwegian as well), but if you want to say a lot /anything more, you have my permission .. :

BerntR - a question
 

I have been reading your post # 5 in this tread. Towards the end you wrote:
"You can increase the left wrist bend in the back stroke, but only if you can keep it until past impact."

Is this right - or did you mean the right wrist here?

Yes - I mean no - I mean both

:laughing9

I'm a left handed golfer trying to translate everything to righthanded and this time I wasn't successful.

Right wrist for a right hander - that's what I meant.

Must be hard to think opposite. I often say the opposite even when not trying.

Mechanics to feel: Monitoring the pressure in the hands
 

The flying wedges have three monitors: pp#1, #2 and #3.

The flying wedges sort of dictates the pressure point alignments throughout the stroke. Not entirely though, since pp#3 rotation or not is still an option for swinging or hitting.

But it represents a structure that is so rigid that it will expose a large number of stroke problems through pp#1,#2, #3 pressure, especially those related to rhythm.

When you are loyal to your wedges, you will to a large extent feel stroke problems as glitches, discontinuities, odd PP variation throughout your stroke. The cause can be in any component basically, but the problem will manifest itself in the hands before it manifests itself in the ball flight. There's no point in looking for an explanation of how it should feel. Because you will feel the difference between better and worse, and between right and wrong.

A flip will often create a discontinuity in the pressure. A down stroke where pp#3 overshadows pp#1 is a sign of a throwaway in the making, usually caused by a pivot that doesn't work properly. Loss of pp#2 anywhere is basically a bad thing. The list is probably endless. You don't really need a check list because you will feel whether a difference is better or worse.

Needless to say, there will be a masking effect when the ball gets in the way. The feel of impact will to a certain extent overshadow the pressure right before and right after impact. Impact feedback is important too, but you will have the best pressure feel when you do trial swings before you actually strike the ball. And when/if you get good at it you will learn to adjust the components while preparing for the actual shot. I am quite certain that the tour pro's listen to their hands when they do a large number of trial strokes before the delicate greenside par saver is executed.

Refer to another thread where you linked to Fred Shoemaker. His concept of awareness is a perfect match with TGM monitoring of the pressure points. There will from time to time be a need to be aware of other components as well. And certainly a need to monitor whatever you're working on the range. But the pressure in the hands should IMO be monitored always.

Half wedges and 3/4 wedges are great for monitoring hands pressure. If you start aiming for the 50 meter pole at your (hopefully) nearby indoor practice range, you will after a while - almost automatically - became very aware of the pressure in the hands.

And in my opinion, monitoring of the pressure in the hands is THE secret towards a good and consistent short game.

Very nice. I'm not so upset regarding the wedges any more - much thanks to you (and Yoda's Dvd +videos) and surely a couple of other names as well..

I was a little quick to reply yesterday. It didn't say so much about the Flying Wedges at this stage, but maybe it did after all?

Are you saying that the structure of the Flying Wedges is so rigid that you need extra awareness in the shot making - especially for the shorter shots - and that's the role of the hands - in developing feel and touch to "smoothen" the mechanics going on? (Or something like that?)
Educated and sensitive hands.

You don't need extra awareness with the Flying Wedges. The wedges will give you extra awareness. More of the problems will manifest themselves in the hands and not be hidden by over flexible hands that doesn't have a clue about what the are supposed to do.

The flying wedges will to a large extent force you to move your hands in accordance with your pivot but your club will still obey the laws of physics. When the two don't add up, provided you don't cheat with the flying wedges, you will feel the "conflict" in your hands.

The game of golf needs real time monitoring and continous preventive maintenance. So much so, that monitoring and fine tuning becomes an integrated part of the shot preparation and ball striking. There are a lot of consistent players out there with funny looking swings. Guys who shoots in the 70's regularly even though they swing pattern is full of flaws and compensations. It works because they have a good feel system and good monitoring skills.

So work on your monitoring skills while you practice. Feel what's going on in your stroke. This will assist you in improving your stroke pattern and it will help you play your best with whatever stroke pattern you have on any given day out on the course.

Good advice. Thanks.
I think I was able to understand what you are saying. Much more than I would a couple of months ago. Allthough you are some sort of ingenieur - far away from my knowledge place on earth - I enjoy reading what you write (when I understand it - like now).

airair, I'm getting in late on this but I think I know where your problem lies because initially I had the same one myself, that is, what are the "wedges"?

The 'wedge' refers to the shape created by the angles between the golf club and arms. So the left arm wedge is a 'v' shaped wedge.

perhaps this article from iseekgolf will help:

http://www.iseekgolf.com/golfinstruc...wedge-part-one

there is a part two there as well.

Better late than never, as we say (tranlated) here. I probably needed this time to deal with this. So now I can read your link as well without drowning. Thanks.

I found this little clip that I never had seen...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3C1_...eature=related