Aiming point
 

I'm new to TGM so this may be a dumb question; if so, forgive me. I understand why a hitter would want an aiming point, but why would a swinger? If the whole idea is to just let the ball get in the way of swing why would you have an aiming point?

Aiming Point, when not the inside aft quadrant of the ball, is located on the delivery line which visually directs the Clubhead. This is an alternate way of assuring an On-Plane Stroke by visualizing the Clubhead Orbit.

If you draw the Clubhead Arc on the Ground, it will always pass through the Inside Aft Quadrant of the Ball. The Aiming Point would be somewhere along this Arc Line.

If you, as I do, prefer to trace the Plane Line with the #3 PP, then the Aiming Point ( if you want to call it that ) will always be the inside Aft Quadrant of the Ball. I guess when I think hard about it, I'm directing Thrust along the Plane Line with the focus on intersecting the Inside Aft Quadrant of the Ball. Hmm? I guess that the Inside Quad of the ball is my Aiming Point.

( I think, I'm close, at least, to understanding the Aiming Point Concept )(I need the Posts. I heard that after 4,000 posts, ya get free lessons :laughing9 )

Wow!! This is some deep stuff. I've started tracking the plane line with the #3pp. That alone has helped a lot. Now I've got to figure out if my right arm lifts the left on the backswing. If I push my left arm with my right on the downswing or is it more a flinging of my left arm off my chest, etc., etc., and the list goes on and on.

uh oh, then I'm probably wrong. When it goes deep, I tend to bury myself in it. :laughing9

Don't worry Daryl,

I doubt there are many who can tell whether you'r wrong or right. It looks good to me anyway. I was actually standing by here waiting for an answer from someone of your caliber.

One question though;

Do you really trace the plane line with pp#3? I don't mean geometrically, but mentally. In a monitoring sense? Do you think about it when you strike the ball?

I do a lot of tracing at address. My mindset is arch of approach. But when I've started the motion, the tracing basically happens in virtual reality.

The monitoring I do with pp#3 is basically for lag pressure and discontinuites in the hinge action.

I don't monitor where the club is going. Not conciously anyway. But I probably do it subconciously. It seems like I already know where the clubhead is and what it takes to move it through impact. So a lot of focus on the ball and the intent of the shot, but not much monitoring once I've started the motion.

Yes. I try as long a trace as the length of swing permits.

Three feet aft and Three feet forward is a definite "Drawing a line with a Pencil". With a flying wedge waggle, Three feet aft of the ball, the trace feels like a right to left dragging a broom where the wall meets the floor, and Three feet forward the trace needs right arm straightening to keep the broom against the baseboard.

During the actual swing, all of that blends together and feels like a long sweep while straightening my right arm. But it's definitely drawing a line with a sweeping and straightening motion of my right forearm/hand.

It's really important to me to feel that on every shot because it helps to feel like I'm dragging the #3 PP pressure through the ball as my right arm straightens. I like the feel of dragging the club and I want to keep it dragging and not take over the shot.

I don't rotate my arms or Wrists (Swivel) which is probably why I'm able to sense the #3 PP so well. I just use a simple Horizontal Hinge. The Impact Swivel is the automatic outcome of my Hand Path moving Down-Plane. Simply Straightening the Right Arm while moving Down-Plane returns the Clubface to Vertical for Impact.

Those are my feels. They worked really well this year. I really tried to keep things simple. Fairways, Greens, Bar, Nap; in that order. :)

Aiming point is the "physics of delivery paths" . . . so what the heck does that mean? well basically it's how you can control when the club "throws out" . . . it's a personal thing really . . and it can have a lot to do with the length of the club . . . for instance I see a lot of "machinist" guys who are into the machine big time (LIKE ME!!!) who have this affection for "accumulator lag" . . . that Hogan laggy look . . . there is a "picture of what's happening" and then there is a procedure . . . I can promise you ben hogan wasn't doing any "holding on" . . .he set a lot of angle but he DUMPED it . . . slung it out of there . . . this is why it is a personal deal . . . you may be a cat that "dumps it" to the point where you have "shot your proverbial load" early . . .so you may need to have a more "forward" aiming point . . . or you could be a cat like me . . . who watch Ben Doyle's tapes . . . tried to get his right elbow infront of his navel and NEVER DUMPED ANYTHING . . . something you can experiment with . . . hard to say without knowing what you do . . . people want to achieve a leaning shaft . . . I'm all for that . . .but WHAT IS THE CORRECT AMOUNT? Do you want tons of shaft lean with a 3 iron? As the clubs get longer generally you are moving your aiming point back . . .to account for the amount of time it takes for them to get "in line". So it's kind of about when you allow the club to begin the process of "getting in line" . . . you want to extend the radius . . . but you want to do it in a way that allows you to bring speed about consistently and on plane at the proper time to deliver the club in an arc that doesn't disturb low point that you can control . . . everybody wants this snap release . . . is that always the ideal? Is that going to bring about the best results for YOU . . . CONSISTENTLY? For me I'm not sure it is ideal . . . I had my aiming point soooo far forward that the club never really had a chance to overtake and my hands get pulled out over the plane with the clubhead too under . . . balls can go EVERYWHERE . . . watch what you wish for . . .

Well said, bucket!

I totally agree about what you say about shaft lean. Being able to manipulate that is an important part of shot making though.


" ... to account for the time of them to get in line.."

This applies mostly to driveloading, no?

If you're a swinger with pure CF, the aiming point will only account for where the swing path is pointing at impact. The left wrist is then truly CF flat at impact regardless of where you locate your aiming point.

The side spin will be determined by the overtaking rate at imapct, and adjustments to the grip; Everything else will stay the same. So I think I understand the basis for this question.

My goto high draw with some distance is a pure CF swing where I place the aiming point quite some distance before the ball. If I struggle with poor dynamics I aim on the plane line, but away from the target. That's right. Aiming town right when the ball is supposed to go up and left. It prevents an independend arms swing and let the pivot carry the arms instead. It reinforces a sequenced and late release with late pp#3 rotation and reinforces a lot of things that are good for impact dynamics.

It took a while before I figured out that putting the ball back in the stance and just take a swing at it didn't produce a low ball flight at all. I had to to add some finesse - blend in some driveloading to manipulate the height of the ball flight and / or some pivot finesse to manipulate the hinge acction. The I work the ball the more important the aiming point gets.

I usually think more of the clubhead than what is recommended in TGM, but when it comes to aiming point, it is lot about the hands; Where I direct the hands and the lag presure I want to feel in the hands when I get there.

Point Blank
 

...or you can use the Impact Fix Hand location as a gateway.

and he surfs the galaxies . . . bending time and space . . .

maybe . . . . still gotta account for pulley diameter . . . cf works on big wheels as well as small wheels no?

How about automatic vs non automatic release? Doesn't that come into play here?

Aiming Point
 

Aiming Poiht can also vary depending upon which club one is using... wedge vs. driver

What if you thrust out to any part of the Base Line of the Plane?
 

I trace the BLP going back but feel like I can fire at any part of that line once my weight is forward even if I set the Hula to start. If I sweep and it's an automatic release, I want to throw out at the line after my hands drop to waist high. If a non-automatic release, I try to hold to the belt-buckle remembering that the goal is not the ball but Both Arms Straight!

ICT

Teach what happened to you? Makita and Hull? Now that was pre Flyers I know......old time hockey, original six.

They were hockey immortals for sure. I used to have a photo of Hull above my bed when I was a kid. Every night I prayed he'd get traded to the Leafs. Every night. Never happened , maybe I have a few prayers left to be answered though. Hope so. Patrick Kane in blue and white maybe? Got to do some work on that one. Let us pray.

I am very new to TGM. Spent a day each with David Orr and Jeff Evans last year. My game improved significantly since. Forward leaning shaft, lag, trying to move the swing bottom forward, etc.. is the main changes I am making. I haven't hooked a ball since which is saying something as this was my long time nemesis. I hit shots straight, but to the right of my intended target line. I have made huge strides from where I started. Read Bobby's Impact Zone book and saw the dvds recently. However, I fail to grasp the aiming point, or should I say I don't know how to quantify it. I must be doing it to some degree, but not in a conscious way. Meaning, I don't have a spot on the ground I am aiming at as mentioned in Clampett's dvds. I keep reading about folks using pp3 to some effect. I am learning to monitor it as it relates to maintaining lag, but not sure how that is used in conjunction with the aiming point. I am curious about the above comment. What is Impact Fix Hand location? My copy of TGM is on the way from Amazon, so I apologize for asking questions about a theory I have not even read yet. Just eager to learn more.


-Dan

This is good! YOu have come to the right place . . . I read Clampett's book . . . it's very good . . . BUT . . . he has aiming point mixed up for sure . . . he IS TALKING ABOUT IMPACT HAND LOCATION PROCEEDURE . . . NOT AIMING POINT . . . . Drew is 100% money dolla billz as usual!!! So once you get your book and read up on aiming point you'll see the differences . . . no biggie but Clampett is not using the proper terminology at least as far as Machine spanglish . . . and mixing up procedures/procedural terms . . . that being said book is good but until you separate the two . . . confusion will reign in your reading here. No knock on Bobby's book . . . just didn't get that right.

I am reminded that Bobby Clampett was a student of Ben Doyle and Ben Doyle has "aiming Point" labled on his facts and illusions mat, and, as I recall, he has also said the aiming point is at/near the impact fix hand location. This is a very difficult concept to apply without a better GEOMETRIC explanation. I hope someone can help me also because I have not been able to put any solid geometric understanding into my incubator. Power Package delivery paths and lines make the confusion maybe???

Isn't he talking about 4 in in front of the ball? Is that the low point or just the line of the right forearm past the ball at impact?

I place my confidence in Mr. Buckets answer back at #7. It is part of power package delivery. Beyond that I become clueless. I have experimented with sliding point +/- on the plane line etc. and all just leave me more confused. My current use is not a point at all but a feel for the location I need to get my hands for release. And i know when its wrong but I also find it VERY hard to fix. It involves more than just hitting that hand location a little more forward or aft. may even tie into hands controled pivot????

HB

Bucket, I enjoy your posts.
 

[IMG][IMG]And your mad TGM skills.

With you (Mike O), Daryl, OB, Kevin, Bam Bam, Ed Z, Bernt, Gerry, it is amazing.

Your point (and Daryl's) about release and consistency is really the stuff of at least 5 new threads, I think.

I realized the other day that I am going to get all the distance I need out of these ZB's Kevin turned me on to. Well, ok. Now the real problem is shooting par or better. I think TGM has about 20 gears in its box and I have only used two of them so far.

I mean look at LYNN, TED and JEFF. Excellent golfers, different paradigms, strong teachers, too. I think we are talking about the differences between Michelangelo, Da Vinci, and Tintoretto. They all see the curves of human beings and nature but they all work with those curves to different and significant effects.




We all feel the LAG, and see the Plane. Those are our tools. What are our goals?

ICT

My goal is just to play again, and I may have to become a swinger to do it!

Kevin

For a year or two, maybe.
 

You'll be such a good teaching pro, learning more about the swing, that you'll need to recruit other teaching pros from, uhmmm, Philadelphia for summer help!!! But by then, you'll be the only AI/LBG certified guy in the Great Plains!

Can my territory be Iowa? WE will have to go to Rube's Steakhouse in Montour!

LOL!

ICT :golfcart:

LOL - I can't wait for your next visit!

Kevin

SURE . . 100% tied to hand controlled pivot . . . as you say above it can be done by "feel" . . . Mr. Kelley actually advised the player to look at the point rather than the ball . . . but this is your "triggering point" or "directing point" to get the club to throw out at the right TIME . . . it IS A TIMING THING . . . each club will line up at a different rate due to the length of the shaft . . . I "experimented" with the aiming point too far forward . . too much shaft lean . . .too much accumulator lag that the accumulators never "dumped" and the club never "threw out" . . . so particularly with the driver I've had to feel that the aiming point is WAAAAAAAY back of the ball . . . that is the danger of some interpretations of TGM/lag/snap release/accumulator lag/sergio&hogan look . . . it may look sexy . . but is it efficient for your game . . . and even though it looks a certain way . . .is it really that "certain way" . . . what you are seeing is happening . . . but does that mean you should MAKE it happen??? Are they trying to make the "look" happen or is the look a result of something else they do?

Say it ain't so Homer
 

The more I look at Aiming Point concept the less sense it makes.
Impact fix hand location is the closest that makes any sense, but is not satisfactory. Trying to look at two things at the same time makes no sense at all and looking at something other than the ball makes even less.
OK, let’s define it as the hand position for trigger. The relationships of hand position at trigger and at impact are separated by the pulley and the pulley size is determined by, hand speed, release type and club.
Now I have just defined aiming point in terms that no one else has ever ventured into but all considered in makes as much or more geometrical sense.
I don’t see that this violates anything HK wrote.
DOES IT??

Again, I could be all wrong. So to save the world from another bad concept .....?

at 3:10-3:20 min. where the dowel strikes the ground.
This is it!!!

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/index.p...mp-Wedges.html

Life is Good!!
 

This is an important post- for me.
It is MY post #313.
That has 3 points of significance- not in an order of importance- definitely not in an order of importance:
a. #313- Donald Ducks license plate #
b. 313 AD - The year Constantine declared Christianity the religion of the Holy Roman Empire.
c. The post after my #312 where I FINALY absorbed the AIMING POINT concept. 6-E-2.

Let’s only comment on c. - The more I realize that this is not new, Yoda has demonstrated it numerous times.
It is a defining point on the pulley.
The point where the "dump" starts down the shaft. 12-3-0, 26 and 30.
I think I can use it along with Impact hand position to think geometrically how to coordinate hand speed, club length and "pulley" size.

Thanks again Yoda and HK.

The Bear

Request
 

Yoda

Please "replay" your thoughts on this post;

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/post10827-55.html

Especially- "But not vice versa"

The Bear

I never would've thought of that, Bear.
 

The point where the "dump" occurs? Wow! Maybe? That would be then the same point where the vertically un-cocking left wrist fires or it's thumb snaps down? When I play my best golf (not saying much as it is a 78 so far), I know where my (Johnny Miller) brush point starts (where the Aim Point is???) and I slide the ball 2 inches or so back. Recall that I am a lousy driver but I can stick my wedges and short irons!

And Mr. Bucket, am I relieved to hear you say that your Aim Point for the driver is 2 feet back or so! I have been simply firing my right arm straight down from shoulder level from Standard Address and hitting the driver well for a couple weeks now. I think I have a very slow swing.


ICT

Aiming point-level at impact
 

One additional point. Along with the normally discussed alignments there is . The LFW shall have the left wrist LEVEL at impact/low point. Along with rhythm aiming point is an important factor (for me) and must be planned and requires the adjustment and coordination of most other components so that the left wrist is level at impact.

Not only down but the "relative rate of down" is effected by the left wrist residual cock.

Also- Impact hands location is three dimensional. requireing Both, considerations of position and direction.

Just my opinion/personal observation.

Do you have another method of controlling left wristcock for level at impact?


The Bear

Smooth Move
 

This is my 1st post. Is the Homer Kelly book really hard to understand? If so is their a way to simplify it?

Hi, i'm new to The Golfing Machine too. I think we can probably find a good deal of improvement by understanding some of the basics without the need to understand the whole book. Kev advised me that these are the basics (below) & a good starting point. I think we also need to learn these basics in miniature first (called basic motion) - check it out in the video section, have you watched all the videos yet ?


THE G.O.L.F. SWING IS:
1) THE HINGE ACTION = Clubface Control
2) Of an ANGULAR MOTION = Club head Control
3) On an INCLINED PLANE = Club shaft Control

THE IMPERATIVES ARE:
1) A “Flat” Left Wrist
2) A Club head Lag Pressure Point
3) A Straight Plane Line

THE ESSENTIALS ARE:
1) A Stationary Head
2) Balance
3) Rhythm

THE MACHINE CONTROLS THREE FUNCTIONS
1) The Inclined Plane is CLUBSHAFT Control – See 2-F and 4-0
2) The Pressure Points are CLUBHEAD Control – See 2-K and 4-0
3) The Left Wrist is CLUBFACE Control – See 2-G and 4-0

THE THREE STATIONS OF THE MACHINE
1) ADDRESS - be as prepared as possible
2) THE TOP - be as precise as possible
3) THE FINISH - be as smooth and complete as possible through Impact to the Finish

THE STAR SYSTEM TRIAD
1) ·The THREE IMPERATIVES (2-0)
2) ·Controlling the THREE FUNCTIONS (1-L-A/B/C)
3) ·Through the THREE STATIONS (12-3)

Your conception of the book will determine it's utility for you.
 

I think of the book as an encyclopedic handbook, much like my old Boy Scout Field Manual. I look up something and get a bunch of neat other ideas. Then I search the topic here in the "search" section and watch any related videos which might apply. And, I ask related questions of the really good players here, including Mr. Blake, aka, "Yoda."


Welcome! :)


ICT

Biters Bit
 

Your question telegraphs the fact that you do not presently own the book.

:laughing9

So, go to www.thegolfingmachine.com and buy it. Tell'em Lynn Blake sent you. No discount, but fun for me!

That's the first step, Smooth . . . .

Own the book.

After a while, though (as we who dwell here know) . . .

The book owns you.

:salut:

I will buy the book. Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. I have ordered the Alignment Golf DVD, i'm eagerly waiting to receive it.

Thanks,
Smooth Move

DVD Backup
 

Thanks, Smooth. 'Preciate it.

Post if you need help.

I'll be here.

:salut: