Quick tempo with RFT leads to over the top slices?
 

Leading into this yes I do realize that slow, heavy, and deliberate is what I'm searching for but I have always struggled with that.....

That said up until I started using a RFT I would hit nice push draws all day long.

But as soon as I switched to a RFT with my quick tempo I immediately began getting over the top and since then it has gotten worse and worse.


I had tried everything to fix it and nothing work until today..........

My pre-shot routine was a nice rhythmic RFT to a nice smooth pivot of the hips and I made sure the pivot did not begin until I was done taking the club back with the RFT.

In short I made sure they did not over lap.

Lo and behold the slices were gone and I was no long over the top.


So have I diagnosed this correctly?

Was that the culprit?

:eyes:

I think I know what your saying but I don't think that it's tempo related. Tempo may be a factor but I don't think it the cause.

In a common golf stroke, shoulder turn takeaway with a simultaneous hip turn, your arms and hands keep going after your hips stop turning. That seems to break the glue between them.

With the Right Forearm Takeaway, using Hip Action on the Backstroke tends to glue the shoulders and hips together in a way that when you start down, it seems like a big body -hips and shoulders- around together rotation back to the ball. Over the top.

I think your answer rests with delaying the Hip Turn until your RFT pulls the around which will give you maximum separation between them for this type of backstroke. I don't mean so much that you'll have a greater X factor so much as I mean that mentally, the Hips and shoulders have kept their independence. The Hula Hula flexibility isn't a big physical deal as much as it's a independent but coordinated thing.

What I meant is that was it possible that I was still trying to fan and pull backwards and upwards with the right forearm while the hips were trying to move forward.

Thus rather than having a nice smooth back swing, transition, then downswing I seemed to have a backswing and a downswing that blended together and overlapped with no transition and no tempo at all.

I do get what you are saying though and that also might be correct.

A lot of great Golfers do it that way including Ben Hogan. Maybe it isn't the procedure, but the execution of a single little component?

But anyway, glad to hear you're hitting it better.

This is very true.

However Ben Hogan was made out of silly putty, bubble gum, and rubber bands. :)

Grant, if you are still Drive Loading........try shortening your swing. Stop at Top instead of End and see what happens!!! End requires an Arc in the Hand Path to get the Hands back to a position at Top from which they can Drive, Straight Line. The Hitters "bounce" back from End to Top like David Toms or K.J. Also if you are Driving Loading , shortening it up can help out with the Over Acceleration problem that Drive Loaders have. It'll give you less time to run out of Right Arm basically and save top speed for the ball instead of making contact while in the process of decelerating. A Hitter really needs to Startdown Slowly and Shorten his swing until the point where he can be reaching top Speed at the ball instead of way before it.

Just a thought, not sure if you are Drag Loading or Drive. Think of it as saving some bent Right Arm for the ball, a later Release. Which can also be had from End as opposed to Top, by using the Right Shoulder to take the fully bent Right Arm down plane in Startdown. The Startdown Waggle, the Ben Hogan demonstration in Shells WWof Golf. A Right Shoulder Throw using the Turned Shoulder Plane, Drag Loading.........which would make you a Swinger or a Four Barrel Hitter.

Driving from End is problematic. Im with Daryl on the Pivot overlapping , Pivot Lag. Its a good thing generally speaking. However, if your Hands are positioned above a Turned Shoulder Plane then any move of the Pivot in Startdown will take the Hands over the Plane........which is why some folks drop the Hands to a lower Plane in Transition. But, Im wondering if your problem actually relates to the Right Elbow unbending from End since you've been experimenting with Hitting lately.

Remember also that Thrusting naturally produces Angled Hinging which will tend towards shots falling off to the right. Hitters need to close the face to correct this wobble or sliding off the face thing. Dont let the ball flight freak you out. Its a club FACE thing not a clubhead path thing. The ball leaves at Right Angles to the Face. A lot of guys who are experimenting with Hitting for the first time and working under the old incorrect ball flight rule of thumb (ball leaves according to clubpath and curves to the where the face points) get themselves in a mess when they start seeing fades and then bend their plane to the left, thinking its a path problem when it isnt. Angled Hinging is a product of Thrusting.

Im shooting in the dark here, sorry. But it did occur to me, given your earlier post on trying Hitting.

Thanks OB Left.

Basically I've done both drag and drive loading and both for some reason have me going over the top a bit.

I started out drag loading and the OTT move reared its ugly head there. My coach and I originally believed it to be a lack of flexibility ruining my pivot problem and so we switched to drive loading.

Then the same move reared its ugly head with drive loading proving to me that it isn't a flexibility issue as much as it is a right hand issue.

I was a basketball player for 20 years prior to golf and was a great shooter due to the fact that I shot a few hundred jump shots per day and even laid in bed popping that right wrist for a fluid jumper. My body has spent thousands of hours learning that muscle movement and it hasn't stopped. :naughty:


So drag loading didn't click and drive loading didn't either.

I'm trying float loading now and it gives me a tremendously relaxed and loose feel and here are my results.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElmKOVn65oc

I feel like with this movement that right hand is now a loyal soldier and I can condition that right hand to accept whatever the pivot throws at it and so far it has decided to comply.

:happy3:

grantc79,

Your OTT tendency could simply be a consequence, not a cause. If you've been used to starting the back swing with turning the pivot and now start with the arms only, you may have changed the relationship between the arms swing and the pivot swing in a way that requires an adjustment coming down.

I've had my fair mix of ott and push slices lately. The ott has been a compensation, while the push slice has beeen the compensation free stroke. Yesterday I managed to adjust the timing of the arms swing by pointing my nose further back in the stance at address and keep it there. It gave the arms more time to square the club face before impact and I hit it long and straight, with a healthy draw.

As long as you have just a little tendency towards dual horizontal hinge in there, the club face will close sooner or later. It probably squares up later in your case. If you turn your head a few inches away from the target (as Jack Nicklaus used to do) you can enable more club face squaring prior to impact. And you will not need to go OTT to put the ball in play.

I don't think you are over the top at all . . . . what I notice is how much your ass is going toward the target line thru the ball . . . as a reference look at that seam or corner or whatever that is behind your net. YOur booty is basically on that line at address. Now watch as you come thru . . . your butt is coming way away from it . . . goat's fear this move. You need to feel like your ass stays on a wall behind you and your head stays on a wall infront of you. Check out Hogan's ass for refence . . . on the wall . . . no goat humping.

You may even have to feel like your butt is gonna bust thru the wall to get it. So get your left butt cheek way more forward and back against the wall as you transition. Feel much more "into" your left hip joint. If your hips are moving toward the plane line, you can't continue to rotate them. That's gonna stall your pivot and cause cf to take over and get your face rotating faster than it should.

So if you stop your film at impact and compare to Hogan . . . your butt has tucked under you . . . look at your right knee due to your faulty hip motion . . . it has shot out at the ball. Compare how much more forward, ass back and rotated Hogan is in his impact frame. In the next frame notice how you can't see the grip cap and his hands are hidden by his body but the club head is still out. He's taking his wedges around thru the ball. With your next frame you can see the grip cap and your hands . . . cf has taken over because your rotation has stalled.

you could also get an old club and stick a stick in the grip cap make some slow swings at first so you learn to take your wedges down out and forward and then back up and in. Hogan wouldn't get stabbed by the stick . . . but you'd be jabbed hard.

all that being said . . you move your arms REALLY NICE! So work on that pivot and you get much better pictures and results.