Hitting Curves

[ChrisNZ]

How much "cut" do you reckon he played for? 5 yards? 10? 15?

?

I remember reading in some book, might have been Mark James's autobiography, that the author played with Nicklaus at the height of his powers. It was the author's recollection that usually Jack would cut it 3 or 4 yards right, but on bad slices he'd lose it 10 yards right - with his driver!!!!

Probably the intimidation factor talking.

[12 piece bucket]

I remember reading in some book, might have been Mark James's autobiography, that the author played with Nicklaus at the height of his powers. It was the author's recollection that usually Jack would cut it 3 or 4 yards right, but on bad slices he'd lose it 10 yards right - with his driver!!!!

Probably the intimidation factor talking.

I think Jack just PLAYED the golf course better than anybody ever has . . . Everybody was all geeked when Eldrick won the British Open so impressively by only hitting ONE DRIVER all week . . . and then Pavin follows up by winning hitting 160 yard knock-down slider 5 irons where the other cats are hitting 8 irons. That is the true BEAUTY of the game . . . strategy, shot making, and mental toughness.

The hell with all this bang it 350 yards and flip a lob wedge up there. Who freakin' cares??? Not me anyway.

Jack said he didn't really start winning at the Pro level until he figured out that golf was a PRECISION game not a brute force game.

[Delaware Golf]

I think Jack just PLAYED the golf course better than anybody ever has . . . Everybody was all geeked when Eldrick won the British Open so impressively by only hitting ONE DRIVER all week . . . and then Pavin follows up by winning hitting 160 yard knock-down slider 5 irons where the other cats are hitting 8 irons. That is the true BEAUTY of the game . . . strategy, shot making, and mental toughness.

The hell with all this bang it 350 yards and flip a lob wedge up there. Who freakin' cares??? Not me anyway.

Jack said he didn't really start winning at the Pro level until he figured out that golf was a PRECISION game not a brute force game.

Hmmmmm....for me, I really enjoy smacking one long and straight or with a slight draw...hit a few last weekend....hit the driving range net 250 yards out on the fly...thanks Mr. Tomasello and Homer.

DG

[mb6606]

Looking at all the key PGA stats for 2006 there is one stat (other than scoring average) that stands out -- Par 5 Birdie Leaders
The top three:
1 1 Vijay Singh
2 2 Tiger Woods
3 3 Phil Mickelson

[birdie_man]

I think it's a very valid strategy...100%.

Cause Jack didn't dink it either. He did play a power game.

But he just tried to make sure he missed right I think....i.e. aim left play for a 5 yard fade.....if it misses it will be a 10 yard fade or w/e....still in play......predictable so you can play for it.....fades sit on greens.....

[Kumabjorn]

Looking at all the key PGA stats for 2006 there is one stat (other than scoring average) that stands out -- Par 5 Birdie Leaders
The top three:
1 1 Vijay Singh
2 2 Tiger Woods
3 3 Phil Mickelson

And it probably looks about the same for 2007. However, par 3 stats are usually over par. To me that is an indication for the non-bombers to take some advantage with precision irons. Or what about par 4s, more of those than long and short holes.

My memory may fail mer here, but in the days of Palmer, Nicklaus, Player and Trevino they played their longer irons better than the present generation of pros, simply because on a par four they may play driver 5I, where today it is wok-skillet LW #3. So they needed to be good with a 5I on more occasions than only on tee from a par 3...., but I might be a delusional nostalgic.

[Mike O]

#21 06-18-2008, 09:00 AM
Hennybogan
LBG Pro Contributor Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 154

Hogan vs. Tiger

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew
Unfortunately Darruis, YOU ARE WRONG.

Ok lets just go along with these assumptions just for now even though they are heavily weighted towards your arguement.



You don't just divide the driving distance (yards) by the fairway with the half of the fairways width(yards) and expect to find anything useful. All you have found is the difference between a fifteenth of their driving distance - you could of just subtracted their driving distances together and divided by 15 and you would of come up with the same answer....an answer which isn't much use for anyone. It doesn't say much about your maths skills or those of GPStyles who seems to think your akin to Albert Einstein.

The correct differences are these.... I've omitted the sums because you won't understand them anyhow...

Woods hitting 300 yards onto a 30 yard fairway has 5.73197 degrees margin for error.

Hogan hitting 250 yards onto a 30 yard fairway has 6.87963 degrees margin for error.

So hogan at 80% FIR having to be 83.4% less accurate than Woods would only hit the fairway 66% of the time at 300 yards.



So where you plucked this number from I do not know - perhaps you clicked your heels together three times.

The pure maths is pointless to the debate and anyhow the maths becomes more in Tigers favour when you increase the fairway from the super tight hypothetical width you set. I could think of plenty of arguements that when added up make the maths arguement sound silly. It would be like a game of Jenga but its your arguement falling after each one of these blocks (variables you have not accounted for) and you couldn't even set the game properly up to begin with because you suck at Maths.

My feeling is that Wood's golf stroke is better than Hogans... You just wanted to try and own me - You tried and you failed... Try harder next time.

HENNY's Answer

Matthew,

I don't dispute your math. Longer shots on the same angle off line miss the target by more distance. Simple right? Watch the Hogan vs. Snead Shell match at Houston CC. Balls are not just catching the fairway. Hogan is curving the ball so it stays in the center of the fairway as the hole doglegs. "Fit to fairway like hand to glove." This where math gets lost. If the ball is not deflected from the target line, the distance does not factor.

Mike O's Questions:
Henny or anyone else,
I'd like to hear more about working the ball - Both Ways - in regards to course management. How many of the PGA tour pros work the ball both ways - as a particular hole requires? What are some of the common situations or tips for when to work the ball, etc?

Also, Here's my quiz question: When would you NOT want a ball curving in the same direction as the dogleg - "Fit to fairway like hand to glove"?

[12 piece bucket]

#21 06-18-2008, 09:00 AM
Hennybogan
LBG Pro Contributor Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 154

Hogan vs. Tiger

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew
Unfortunately Darruis, YOU ARE WRONG.

Ok lets just go along with these assumptions just for now even though they are heavily weighted towards your arguement.



You don't just divide the driving distance (yards) by the fairway with the half of the fairways width(yards) and expect to find anything useful. All you have found is the difference between a fifteenth of their driving distance - you could of just subtracted their driving distances together and divided by 15 and you would of come up with the same answer....an answer which isn't much use for anyone. It doesn't say much about your maths skills or those of GPStyles who seems to think your akin to Albert Einstein.

The correct differences are these.... I've omitted the sums because you won't understand them anyhow...

Woods hitting 300 yards onto a 30 yard fairway has 5.73197 degrees margin for error.

Hogan hitting 250 yards onto a 30 yard fairway has 6.87963 degrees margin for error.

So hogan at 80% FIR having to be 83.4% less accurate than Woods would only hit the fairway 66% of the time at 300 yards.



So where you plucked this number from I do not know - perhaps you clicked your heels together three times.

The pure maths is pointless to the debate and anyhow the maths becomes more in Tigers favour when you increase the fairway from the super tight hypothetical width you set. I could think of plenty of arguements that when added up make the maths arguement sound silly. It would be like a game of Jenga but its your arguement falling after each one of these blocks (variables you have not accounted for) and you couldn't even set the game properly up to begin with because you suck at Maths.

My feeling is that Wood's golf stroke is better than Hogans... You just wanted to try and own me - You tried and you failed... Try harder next time.

HENNY's Answer

Matthew,

I don't dispute your math. Longer shots on the same angle off line miss the target by more distance. Simple right? Watch the Hogan vs. Snead Shell match at Houston CC. Balls are not just catching the fairway. Hogan is curving the ball so it stays in the center of the fairway as the hole doglegs. "Fit to fairway like hand to glove." This where math gets lost. If the ball is not deflected from the target line, the distance does not factor.

Mike O's Questions:
Henny or anyone else,
I'd like to hear more about working the ball - Both Ways - in regards to course management. How many of the PGA tour pros work the ball both ways - as a particular hole requires? What are some of the common situations or tips for when to work the ball, etc?

Also, Here's my quiz question: When would you NOT want a ball curving in the same direction as the dogleg - "Fit to fairway like hand to glove"?

Someone discovered the bold button and the font drop down . . . .

It is during these times of increased mental capacity that unfortunately people tend to disappear and to later be found bound and gagged . . . dead or worse. If a strange man wearing a Speedo with a potato in the back approaches you at a gas station or a porn shop with breath that smells like he has been licking peoples' arm pits that live at bus stations . . . do not make any sudden moves, return any open mouth kisses, or respond to more than playful slaps on the butt . . . . slowly remove yourself from the area and bathe. This person is extremely dangerous to humans and livestock.

[Hennybogan]

#21 06-18-2008, 09:00 AM
Hennybogan
LBG Pro Contributor Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 154

Hogan vs. Tiger

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew
Unfortunately Darruis, YOU ARE WRONG.

Ok lets just go along with these assumptions just for now even though they are heavily weighted towards your arguement.



You don't just divide the driving distance (yards) by the fairway with the half of the fairways width(yards) and expect to find anything useful. All you have found is the difference between a fifteenth of their driving distance - you could of just subtracted their driving distances together and divided by 15 and you would of come up with the same answer....an answer which isn't much use for anyone. It doesn't say much about your maths skills or those of GPStyles who seems to think your akin to Albert Einstein.

The correct differences are these.... I've omitted the sums because you won't understand them anyhow...

Woods hitting 300 yards onto a 30 yard fairway has 5.73197 degrees margin for error.

Hogan hitting 250 yards onto a 30 yard fairway has 6.87963 degrees margin for error.

So hogan at 80% FIR having to be 83.4% less accurate than Woods would only hit the fairway 66% of the time at 300 yards.



So where you plucked this number from I do not know - perhaps you clicked your heels together three times.

The pure maths is pointless to the debate and anyhow the maths becomes more in Tigers favour when you increase the fairway from the super tight hypothetical width you set. I could think of plenty of arguements that when added up make the maths arguement sound silly. It would be like a game of Jenga but its your arguement falling after each one of these blocks (variables you have not accounted for) and you couldn't even set the game properly up to begin with because you suck at Maths.

My feeling is that Wood's golf stroke is better than Hogans... You just wanted to try and own me - You tried and you failed... Try harder next time.

HENNY's Answer

Matthew,

I don't dispute your math. Longer shots on the same angle off line miss the target by more distance. Simple right? Watch the Hogan vs. Snead Shell match at Houston CC. Balls are not just catching the fairway. Hogan is curving the ball so it stays in the center of the fairway as the hole doglegs. "Fit to fairway like hand to glove." This where math gets lost. If the ball is not deflected from the target line, the distance does not factor.

Mike O's Questions:
Henny or anyone else,
I'd like to hear more about working the ball - Both Ways - in regards to course management. How many of the PGA tour pros work the ball both ways - as a particular hole requires? What are some of the common situations or tips for when to work the ball, etc?

Also, Here's my quiz question: When would you NOT want a ball curving in the same direction as the dogleg - "Fit to fairway like hand to glove"?

Mike O,

Sorry about the delay. There might be a situation with a sloping fairway or something like that.

Most pros would like to think that they curve it both ways at will, but few of them have the control to consistantly pull off the shots. Basically, they play their standard shot and curve it less when they want to "work it the other way."

Many pros do work the ball with or against the wind with mid irons. They often change the trajectory.

My advice would be to play the shape you are most comfortable with and adjust your aim. Personally, I like to draw the ball, but I do have a standard cut tee shot when there are trees too close on the right.

Early time tomorrow, off to bed.

[birdie_man]

I think Jack just PLAYED the golf course better than anybody ever has

Jack said he didn't really start winning at the Pro level until he figured out that golf was a PRECISION game not a brute force game.

Ya...there's that story about how Jack (as an amateur) played with Hogan in the US Open. (I think) After the tournament Hogan said Jack coulda won easily if he knew how to manage the course better.

I tried to find a link to some kind of article but can't remember where I saw this.