Where do I start?

[tgmnut]

Remember per 2-J-2 . . . "Don’t hesitate to change your Stance Line – for physical and psychological reasons or for the situation at hand. Stance Line does not affect the Plane or Target Line. Just use the corresponding Pivot per 10-12 and don’t be misled by the apparent results – your “Down-the-Target-Line Impact” could be just a well executed Push Shot. Even from an ASSUMED Square-Square position. And your apparently Outside-In Impacts may actually be fine Pull Shots. Study 2-L.

The Plane Line is the BOSSMAN . . . and he don't care about your feet. I like the open stance. If you hit what are you going to do though? Are you using the Geometric Plane Line and tracing it? Or are you going to use the 10-5-E Visual Equivalent Plane Line Cross-Line to Right Field?

There are PLENTY of the dudes that make enough money to buy and sell me and you and Mike O that play from an Open Stance. So smoke 'em if you got 'em my friend. My favorite of all time Lee Buck does it . . . so make it happen Capt'n.

I'm not smart enough to figure out how to get video of my flickdid move out here. I have an 8mm video camera. I can mail you a tape though.

How big a boy are you? What's your handicap? Do you hit the short irons better than the long irons? Can you hit the driver straight? I was just wondering cause we may have been separated at birf. I of course being much much prettier'n you.

Not really sure how to differentiate between using the true geometric and the 10-5-E cross line. I just know that using an open stance felt great and worked great.

If you wanna mail me a tape I'd be happy to look at it, and I might be able to get it posted for you. Not sure, though.

I'm about 5' 11" and 200 lbs, pretty solid. Played linebacker and left tackle way back in high school. 'Bout a 10 hcp mainly due to not hitting any of my irons extremely well. Little better with my short irons, though. I do drive the ball pretty well. Usually straight, not much fade or draw, and almost always 280-310. And about the prettier part, the ladies luv the Mr. Clean look.

How 'bout you? Build, hcp, drives, irons, etc?

R

[12 piece bucket]

Not really sure how to differentiate between using the true geometric and the 10-5-E cross line. I just know that using an open stance felt great and worked great.

If you wanna mail me a tape I'd be happy to look at it, and I might be able to get it posted for you. Not sure, though.

I'm about 5' 11" and 200 lbs, pretty solid. Played linebacker and left tackle way back in high school. 'Bout a 10 hcp mainly due to not hitting any of my irons extremely well. Little better with my short irons, though. I do drive the ball pretty well. Usually straight, not much fade or draw, and almost always 280-310. And about the prettier part, the ladies luv the Mr. Clean look.

How 'bout you? Build, hcp, drives, irons, etc?

R

We'll skip the 10-5-E stuff for now . . . it's a little tweeky. I'm 5'9" 2-bills but I am weakling. I hit the short irons good, mid irons good, long irons weak, and driver is streaky. I'm an 8. I could get to 280 or 310 pretty easy if I hit the China Buffet 3 or 4 times a week . . .oh you were talking about hitting drives . . . my bad.

Video your swang from the open stance and see what that does to the forward sway deal? We need Axis Tilt.

PM me and I'll send you a tape.

[EdZ]

I suspect in both of your cases the open stance is a compensation for a 'snare' (head motion), brought about due to a faulty pivot (pivot controlled vs hands control). The 10-2-D grip, combined with the open stance line, are reasonable ways to address this - but always keep in mind that the plane line tends to follow the shoulders - and play a fade.

Some daily eyes closed practice swinging a heavy club and holding your finish will help you with the 'snare' (3-F-7D - no teetering) - feet together at first. Also, I would suggest you try not using right anchor, which should help improve Rhythm. In your case(s), what 'feels' like a pause at the top will help you get to a slow start down and help you keep in balance.

[tgmnut]

EdZ,
Would HITting golf balls with the feet together be a good idea? It would seem to be a good idea if developing a top of the head swing center is the goal.

[tgmnut]

I have new video up of my swing after 2 days of trying to eliminate my forward sway. Feedback please!!!

http://www.geocities.com/robmont64/swing2.html

[BIG_SEXY]

I have new video up of my swing after 2 days of trying to eliminate my forward sway. Feedback please!!!

http://www.geocities.com/robmont64/swing2.html

Looks like you punched a midget in the face




The above is my thought of how hitters look through impact.

Your stroke looks better than the first one. Has your ball flight improved?

[tgmnut]

Hey Big Sexy, (man that sounds wrong)
My ball flight is higher and definitely straighter. My divots are much better as well. They were too deep before. As for the two swings posted on the geocities website, the one on bottom felt like a better swing and the ball was struck more solidly. What do you see in my swing now that you don't like? I'm craving feedback. Thanks.
p.s. what do you mean looks like i punched a midget in the face? is that a good thing?

[Yoda]

I have new video up of my swing after 2 days of trying to eliminate my forward sway. Feedback please!!!

http://www.geocities.com/robmont64/swing2.html

tgmnut,

There is a lot to like in your Total Motion. I am particularly impressed by your ability to maintain your Flat Left Wrist through Impact. Whether acquired through hard work or athletic birthright, it is the reason you play as well as you do.

As I see it, three major stumbling blocks stand between you and your potential. Here they are, along with my recommended cures...

1. The Start Up. Yours is a very 'Handsy' Full Sweep Action (10-22-A) that results in an exaggerated Left Wrist Turn and an Off Plane Clubshaft as you move into the Backstroke. You stated that you have experimented with both the Impact Address and the Standard Address and that you prefer the latter. I suggest you use it to its full advantage by using your Right Forearm -- not your Turning and Cocking Left Wrist -- to move the Clubshaft back along the Plane Line in Start Up. It will be easy because in Standard Address, your Right Forearm and Clubshaft are pointing at very nearly the same spot on the Plane Line. So, think of this initial move as a 'Flat Right Wrist' Takeaway. Practice this diligently with the Right Forearm and Club only.

Drill: Position an Impact Bag behind your Right Foot and on the Arc of Approach. Then, hit it with the Club on the Backstroke using your Flat Right Wrist and Forearm to initiate, direct and sustain the action. Do this over and over until your Right Forearm assumes full control of your Start Up. This will put you well down the road to happy times.

2. The downward Bob. I am not nearly so concerned about what is being labeled the 'forward Sway' because you are merely returning to a Centered position. And Tiger has shown us that even the Bob is not exactly a fatal Snare if it is compensated. Nevertheless, your Head is moving way too much. As a result, your Pivot Center is unstable and Centered Arc is in jeopardy. Until you bring this element under control, you will always struggle for consistency.

3. The Looping Plane Shift. You begin your Stroke on the Elbow Plane and then gradually Shift to the Turned Shoulder Plane. So far, so good. But then, at the Top, you Loop to the very steep Squared Shoulder Plane (10-7-F). All this requires a ton of compensation. The cure -- Pivot correction -- will also go a long way toward curing the above-mentioned Bob.

The first step is understanding exactly how the Pivot should work. Here I would reference the On Plane Shoulder Turn combination of 10-13-D. The student must learn to turn his Right Shoulder as Flat back to the Plane as he can -- you do a good job here -- and then to take the Shoulder directly Down Plane toward the Ball (and not back 'out' to where it came from, i.e., its Address position, which is what you do). And this requires the proper Hip Action -- Slide with a Delayed Turn -- to tilt the spine (the Shoulder Turn's Axis) and enable the Hands to take their desired Straight Line (10-23-A) or Angled Line (10-23-B) Delivery Path to the Ball. So, as a first step, you must work on the Pivot Motion itself without the Arms and Club per Photos 9-1-1/12.

Once you have a crystal clear picture of how the Pivot should function and are able to do make that Motion without Arms and Club, you should immediately turn the control back over to the Hands. This is where the 'magic' will happen.

Without a Club, raise your Right Hand to the Top of your Stroke. Then, leaving the Hand turned palm-up to the Plane, bring the Right Forearm down in a 'karate chop' motion through your line-of-sight to the ball. You will find that the Right Shoulder will cooperate beautifully to enable and suppport that Motion. In fact, it would be quite foreign for the Shoulder to go 'out' and still make the Forearm motion I've described.

Not only will this better keep the Clubshaft On Plane, it will also promote Maximum Trigger Delay of the #3 Accumulator. And that means Maximum Distance. Because of the nature of Right Elbow Participation, Swingers will be able to delay that Release a bit longer than Hitters, but with practice, even Hitters can learn to get that Right Elbow 'past the Ball' before Triggering.



From the Top, Feel the Pivot's Pull of the Arms and Club -- practice Start Down Waggles endlessly -- directly toward the Plane Line. Regarding what 'spot' to Pull toward from the Top, just Pull toward the Plane Line. Since you are always pulling the club lengthwise in the direction it is pointing, and since that direction is changing every split second, the specific point you are Pulling toward is likewise changing. So, just pull toward the Line, and you'll get the job done.

In summary, tgmnut, each of these three items are closely related. Learn to use your Tracing Right Forearm to stay On Plane in Start Up and to guide your Stroke to a Turned Shoulder Plane at the Top. Then, use the Magic of the Right Forearm to deliver the Club Down Plane into Impact on either the Turned Shoulder Plane (Single Shift / 10-7-B) -- probably your most 'comfortable' alternative at this point -- or on your original Elbow Plane (Double Shift / 10-7-C). This focus on Hand-Controlled-Pivot will train your Body to support -- not bully -- the Hands. Finally, work on keeping your Head Stationary. Your reward will be Centered Arc and a new level of consistency.

[12 piece bucket]

tgmnut,

There is a lot to like in your Total Motion. I am particularly impressed by your ability to maintain your Flat Left Wrist through Impact. Whether acquired through hard work or athletic birthright, it is the reason you play as well as you do.

As I see it, three major stumbling blocks stand between you and your potential. Here they are, along with my recommended cures...

1. The Start Up. Yours is a very 'Handsy' Full Sweep Action (10-22-A) that results in an exaggerated Left Wrist Turn and an Off Plane Clubshaft as you move into the Backstroke. You stated that you have experimented with both the Impact Address and the Standard Address and that you prefer the latter. I suggest you use it to its full advantage by using your Right Forearm -- not your Turning and Cocking Left Wrist -- to move the Clubshaft back along the Plane Line in Start Up. It will be easy because in Standard Address, your Right Forearm and Clubshaft are pointing at very nearly the same spot on the Plane Line. So, think of this initial move as a 'Flat Right Wrist' Takeaway. Practice this diligently with the Right Forearm and Club only. Drill: Position an Impact Bag behind your Right Foot and on the Arc of Approach. Then, hit it with the Club on the Backstroke using your Flat Right Wrist and Forearm to initiate, direct and sustain the action. Do this over and over until your Right Forearm assumes full control of your Start Up. This will put you well down the road to happy times.

2. The downward Bob. I am not nearly so concerned about what is being labeled the 'forward Sway' because you are merely returning to a Centered position. And Tiger has shown us that even the Bob is not exactly a fatal Snare if it is compensated. Nevertheless, your Head is moving way too much. As a result, your Pivot Center is unstable and Centered Arc is in jeopardy. Until you bring this element under control, you will always struggle for consistency.

3. The Looping Plane Shift. You begin your Stroke on the Elbow Plane and then gradually Shift to the Turned Shoulder Plane. So far, so good. But then, at the Top, you Loop to the very steep Squared Shoulder Plane (10-7-F). All this requires a ton of compensation. The cure -- Pivot correction -- will also go a long way toward curing the above-mentioned Bob.

The first step is understanding exactly how the Pivot should work. Here I would reference the On Plane Shoulder Turn combination of 10-13-D. The student must learn to turn his Right Shoulder as Flat back to the Plane as he can -- you do a good job here -- and then to take the Shoulder directly Down Plane toward the Ball (and not back 'out' to where it came from, i.e., its Address position, which is what you do). And this requires the proper Hip Action -- Slide with a Delayed Turn -- to tilt the spine (the Shoulder Turn's Axis) and enable the Hands to take their desired Straight Line (10-23-A) or Angled Line (10-23-B) Delivery Path to the Ball. So, as a first step, you must work on the Pivot Motion itself without the Arms and Club per Photos 9-1-1/12.

Once you have a crystal clear picture of how the Pivot should function and are able to do make that Motion without Arms and Club, you should immediately turn the control back over to the Hands. This is where the 'magic' will happen.

Without a Club, raise your Right Hand to the Top of your Stroke. Then, leaving the Hand turned palm-up to the Plane, bring the Right Forearm down in a 'karate chop' motion through your line-of-sight to the ball. You will find that the Right Shoulder will cooperate beautifully to enable and suppport that Motion. In fact, it would be quite foreign for the Shoulder to go 'out' and still make the Forearm motion I've described.

Not only will this better keep the Clubshaft On Plane, it will also promote Maximum Trigger Delay of the #3 Accumulator. And that means Maximum Distance. Because of the nature of Right Elbow Participation, Swingers will be able to delay that Release a bit longer than Hitters, but with practice, even Hitters can learn to get that Right Elbow 'past the Ball' before Triggering.



From the Top, you will want to Feel the Pivot's Pull of the Arms and Club -- practice Start Down Waggles endlessly -- directly toward the Plane Line. Regarding what 'spot' to Pull toward from the Top, just Pull toward the Plane Line. Since you are always pulling the club lengthwise in the direction it is pointing, and since that direction is changing every split second, the specific point you are Pulling toward is likewise changing. So, just pull toward the Line, and you'll get the job done.

In summary, tgmnut, each of these three items are closely related. Learn to use your Tracing Right Forearm to stay On Plane in Start Up and to guide your Stroke to a Turned Shoulder Plane at the Top. Then, use the Magic of the Right Forearm to deliver the Club Down Plane into Impact on either the Turned Shoulder Plane (Single Shift / 10-7-B) -- probably your most 'comfortable' alternative at this point -- or on your original Elbow Plane (Double Shift / 10-7-C). This focus on Hand-Controlled-Pivot will train your Body to support -- not bully -- the Hands. Finally, work on keeping your Head Stationary. Your reward will be Centered Arc and a new level of consistency.

WOW!!!! Seems like there's a thread out here about FREE STUFF . . . How freakin' good was that? That's like hittin' the lotto.

Boss I latched on to the part about the Right Forearm and the Start Up:

Practice this diligently with the Right Forearm and Club only. Drill: Position an Impact Bag behind your Right Foot and on the Arc of Approach. Then, hit it with the Club on the Backstroke using your Flat Right Wrist and Forearm to initiate, direct and sustain the action. Do this over and over until your Right Forearm assumes full control of your Start Up. This will put you well down the road to happy times.

As far as positioning your bag on the Arc of Approach that would be "inside the plane line" no?

And how about this too . . . . Homer Kelley said that on the Backstroke the Pressure Points were REVERSED right? So one using this drill you would feel the inertia of the Sweetspot in the FINGER-TIPS rather than in #1 and #3 right?

That has been one thing I have focused on anyway . . . feeling the pressure in the finger tips on the way back then feeling it load on #3 as my pivot drags the club downplane establishing the Pressure Point Pressure by overcoming the inertia of the club moving back.

2Legit2Quit? Or just plain QUIT?

This is a post to PRINT and TATOO upon one's body somewheres.