Mchatton DVD

[cometgolfer]

Mike is spot on with regards to certs...

Now on the other hand, I have visited with Gregg, spent some time hitting balls with him, breakfast etc and spoke to him a fair bit over the phone - and if there is one thing about him, he knows his TGM and his hands are educated.

However, as with all other forms of instruction (computer science, medical science, theology etc...) I would always check to see whether what I am hearing is factually valid.

Hint: Even though a person says he is using Pivot Controlled Hands, they may not be doing so in reality.

Those drills that were described before simply is Gregg teaching his students to accelerate the club lengthwise or longitudinally, i.e. Drag Loading per 10-19-C.

Arrowing the ball with the butt end of the club is something that Gregg came up with to teach the student Aiming Point per 6-E-2, Drag Loading per 10-19-C and a Straight Line Delivery Path per 10-23-A.

Compda,

Spot On??? I have to admit you're losing me here (as well as is Mike O). Why in the hell do certifications exist to begin with? Is a patient supposed to be in a position to question the doctor about his qualifications? Is the college freshman supposed to inquire as to his Physics professors credentials? If the title GSED means nothing... then the cert process is messed up. The golf student doesn't have the time nor the expertise to determine the teachers qualifications.... especially when it comes to TGM. I always viewed the TGM certification as a "stamp of approval" of sorts (unlike the "PGA Member" title) when it comes to teaching. From what I understand about TGM and the testing... I find it hard to believe you could get a certification (particularly a GSED) without knowing what you're doing.

I'm not saying you can't question the teacher. But at some point the student has to trust the teacher... and the process the teacher used to attain his credentials.

I could be wrong. Sure hope I'm not.

CG

[Yoda]

...in the Golfing Machine world- having a GSED doesn't mean the person "obviously knows what they are talking about". Some may - Some may not- but you need to make that decision based on the information you are given- not the "designation".

Why in the hell do certifications exist to begin with? Is a patient supposed to be in a position to question the doctor about his qualifications? Is the college freshman supposed to inquire as to his Physics professors credentials? If the title GSED means nothing... then the cert process is messed up. The golf student doesn't have the time nor the expertise to determine the teachers qualifications.... especially when it comes to TGM.

Billions of dollars are spent each year on branding. To the extent that branding leads consumers to their own best interests, that money has done its job -- for company and consumer alike. But...

If quality, competition or pricing cause that brand to become suspect, then those billions are lost.

As they should be.

In the end, the marketplace rules.

[golfer24]

However, my own Gallery 'live lesson' demo (where I throw the 'javelin' at the Ball) demonstrates how to establish the precise Down Plane Delivery Path of the Hands -- the Line of Thrust from the Top to the Aiming Point

Thanks for you comments i was only interested in that particular example of what McHatton was doing i.e delivering the butt end to aiming point. Which as Yoda has pointed out is exactly as he demonstrates with the javelin throw. Many thanks.

[golfer24]

need to learn how to highlight these quotes also.

[comdpa]

Billions of dollars are spent each year on branding. To the extent that branding leads consumers to their own best interests, that money has done its job -- for company and consumer alike. But...

If quality, competition or pricing cause that brand to become suspect, then those billions are lost.

As they should be.

In the end, the marketplace rules.

Just as a follow-up to what Lynn has said...

In post #25 of this thread Lynn mentions that certification is the beginning...[my paraphrase].

It seems that getting certified now is no arduous task - with all due respect to the AIs and instructors on this forum. The arduous task really is continuing one's education.

I have seen and heard from the mouths of AIs, erroneous interpretations of TGM, amongst them, GSEDs.

- Rhythm is Tempo.
- Impact Hand location is Aiming Point because that is where you aim your hands to.
- Use your pivot to hit the ball.
- Don't use your hands.

That an instructor is PGA or GSED or whatever their cert says does not make whatever they say valid. On the other hand, a golfer may not have a cert, but be able to teach correct mechanics etc - that is the guy I want to see.

For a clarification of information by authority, please read Science and G.O.L.F

As with buying any service...buyer beware.

[birdie_man]

Rhythm is Tempo.

Impact Hand location is Aiming Point because that is where you aim your hands to.

Haven't heard anyone say those things (in those exact words)...but I agree that they are not the same thing.

Use your pivot to hit the ball.

Personally I like this one. I don't care if it is Pivot Controlled Hands....although I don't think it is. I always know what may hands are doing.....in every shot.....consciously ("programming" b4 the actual shot) and now instinctively.

Myself, it feels more natural to me to use my pivot to take the club back (and I know the r. forearm helps) and pull it down....you could say that my focus is on my left shoulder throughout.

That's me tho I would never tell Freddie Couples to do it differently.

Don't use your hands.

"Don't move your hands with your hands"....?

"The hands JUST hold on"....? (although they also monitor alignments)

?

[Mike O]

Compda,

Spot On??? I have to admit you're losing me here (as well as is Mike O). Why in the hell do certifications exist to begin with? Is a patient supposed to be in a position to question the doctor about his qualifications? Is the college freshman supposed to inquire as to his Physics professors credentials? If the title GSED means nothing... then the cert process is messed up. The golf student doesn't have the time nor the expertise to determine the teachers qualifications.... especially when it comes to TGM. I always viewed the TGM certification as a "stamp of approval" of sorts (unlike the "PGA Member" title) when it comes to teaching. From what I understand about TGM and the testing... I find it hard to believe you could get a certification (particularly a GSED) without knowing what you're doing.

I'm not saying you can't question the teacher. But at some point the student has to trust the teacher... and the process the teacher used to attain his credentials.

I could be wrong. Sure hope I'm not.

CG

"Is a patient supposed to be in a position to question the doctor about his qualifications?"
When it's my life- ABSOLUTELY! Remember, we're not questioning the certificate- it is what it is- we're questioning the skill level

"Is the college freshman supposed to inquire as to his Physics professors credentials?"
If you are majoring in Physics and you want the best- ABSOLUTELY! But we are not questioning the credentials- they are what they are- it's the skill level of first knowing, then the ability to communicate so that the student gets it, then does the physics teacher have the ability to motivate?, make it interesting?- but the knowledge is first

"The golf student doesn't have the time nor the expertise to determine the teachers qualifications.... especially when it comes to TGM."
Well, at first glance it's tough to argue with this comment- but when you look at it in relation to picking an auto mechanic- it allows you to cut to the bone- Anotherwords, you don't necessarily need expertise and know an engine inside out to ask or determine if someone is good in their field or not- and it doesn't really take alot of time- you don't need to read the automechanics manual before you go out and pick a mechanic. Can you make a mistake based on your limited knowledge - ABSOLUTELY! And what do you do if that happens- LEARN- and make a better decision next time!



I didn't say that the certification meant nothing. I just was trying to say as Compda and Lynn pointed out- that buyer beware in regards to any expertise in the marketplace. There are bad doctors. I think all mechanics that work on your car have some certification that they have passed. That said - There are lousy mechanics. There are great mechanics with lousy personal skills. There are great mechanics who lie. If all the mechanics in your area have the same certification- are you going to go to any of them? If you do are they all going to give you the same results and service? Don't all the people that cut your hair have some kind of certification or license- does that mean that you walk in to whoever -- to get your haircut- or when they cut it bad that you scream - "How can you have a license to cut hair!"

Yes, at some point the student should trust the teacher- after the teacher has proved himself. You don't have to trust the process the teacher used to get his credentials- in any field to me the credentials just says that this person took some training and "may" know what they are talking about or may give good advice.

[comdpa]

...Yes, at some point the student should trust the teacher- after the teacher has proved himself. You don't have to trust the process the teacher used to get his credentials- in any field to me the credentials just says that this person took some training and "may" know what they are talking about or may give good advice.

I like that Mikey...

[cometgolfer]

Certainly "buyer beware" applies to all things purchased these days, be it a golf lesson or a car. And I'm not saying that certifications alone determine one's level of expertise. However, there is a certain level of pragmatism/trust that has to be utilized, and unfortunately sometimes you do make the wrong choice and you make a change. (My car has to go to the dealer for maintenance to keep the warranty in effect. I have no idea which mechanic is going to do the work, I simply know that the ones that work there are certified so I have to assume they know what they're doing. If they screw it up, then I probably still have to use them to fix it, but do it enough times and I'm going to make a different decision when my car is out of warranty). Cert processes vary in their "rigor", so some are better indicators of the individuals probable expertise than others. Compda - I can't speak to the TGM certification process as I don't know what it is. But I have to believe it's far beyond the PGA process.

As many golf lessons as I've had over the years, and as much as I've "studied" the golf swing, I guess that I've come to realize that the TGM approach is the "real deal". This is a result of making a concerted effort to understand the book over the last few years. I certainly don't have it all down yet, but thanks to this forum (and posters like Mike O and Compda) I have a handle on many of the basics.

That said, I wouldn't hesitate to see any instructor who's attained a GSED or to recommend "the masses" to see a TGM based/certified teacher. I say that because the "average golfer" normally doesn't know where to begin when it comes to instruction and often ends up getting lessons from someone who has little real understanding of the golf swing and why it works the way it works. These teachers simply perpetuate the students' "blind struggle". There are certainly some great teachers who have never opened the yellow book, and there are probably some bad ones who are TGM certified, but if I had to start my golf "career" over I'd have tracked down a "TGM guy" for help.

CG

[sensicore]

The ideas expressed by gregg in that dvd are discussed fully by Homer --- in edition #2 --- don't have edition # 2 in front of me but
Homer basically called it --- swinging the butt of the club at the ball and letting an auto release switch the club end over end

Every GSED i have met, and I have met them all but 5 ---- Were all deserving of their designation!!!