Blake & Doyle - new video

[Mike O]

Great little video and thanks for posting this. I was also reading another incredibly informative post about the bent right wrist here http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ad.php?p=26202. I never realized how much pp#1 needs to be pushed all the way through to both arms straight with a frozen bent right wrist. Also, happened to see highlights of of the '83 British Open the other night on TGC, they had one great front on video of Lee Trevino "hitting". Impact fix startup all the way through to finish, you could tell he just killed the ball. Thanks again.

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ad.php?p=26202

The left wrist ideally- normally - stays flat not only through impact but through the follow-through and through the swivel. That is one of the fundamental alignments.

How the right wrist moves while that happens is of lesser importance. That said, it normally flattens from impact to follow- through- certainly on full shots.

In addition, assuming theoretically that you have a palm facing grip (not saying anyone does)- then if you have forearm rotation- maintaining a flat left wrist would mean that the right wrist flattens. Conversely, if you maintained a bent right wrist angle while having both forearms rotating then the left wrist would be required to arch.

So the key is if you have no forearm rotation from impact to follow-through- then yes you'll need to have the impact fix degree of right wrist bend or you will have left wrist bend if the right wrist flattens.

I don't think that you'll find in the Golfing Machine that it's talked about maintaining an impact fix degree of bend into the follow-through. Because specifically for swinging and the use of centrifugal force, that would really be more of an "un-golf like" motion than "golf like" on full shots.

I'm not really sure where this misconception comes from - I guess the assumption that if the right wrist flattens that you automatically have the left wrist bending- which is not the case. However, that thought would basically lead to an exaggerated aberation.


But the real judgement is up to you- look at alot of different swing sequences of professional players- not just one here or there. See if you see the right wrist flattening between release and the follow-through.

[Yoda]

How the right wrist moves while that happens is of lesser importance. That said, it normally flattens from impact to follow- through- certainly on full shots.

In addition, assuming theoretically that you have a palm facing grip (not saying anyone does)- then if you have forearm rotation- maintaining a flat left wrist would mean that the right wrist flattens. Conversely, if you maintained a bent right wrist angle while having both forearms rotating then the left wrist would be required to arch.

So the key is if you have no forearm rotation from impact to follow-through- then yes you'll need to have the impact fix degree of right wrist bend or you will have left wrist bend if the right wrist flattens.

I don't think that you'll find in the Golfing Machine that it's talked about maintaining an impact fix degree of bend into the follow-through. Because specifically for swinging and the use of centrifugal force, that would really be more of an "un-golf like" motion than "golf like" on full shots.

I'm not really sure where this misconception comes from - I guess the assumption that if the right wrist flattens that you automatically have the left wrist bending- which is not the case. However, that thought would basically lead to an exaggerated aberation.


But the real judgement is up to you- look at alot of different swing sequences of professional players- not just one here or there. See if you see the right wrist flattening between release and the follow-through.

I agree that the Finish Swivel (out of the Follow-Through) and its independent Wrist Rotation back to the Plane virtually mandates a Flat Right Wrist. However, in my opinion, the Hinge Action -- which is in operation from Impact to the end of the Follow-Through -- does not. It is quite possible to maintain the Bent Right Wrist (without producing an ungolflike move) when the Left Wrist is held Vertical to any one of the Three Basic Planes (Horizontal, Angled or Vertical). In other words, when there has been no 'true' independent rotation of the Hands.

In the countless thousands of Chips and little Pitches I've hit using, e.g., the Full Roll Clubface of Horizontal Hinging, the Bent Right Wrist at the end of the Follow-Through is a key checkpoint.

Check the Bent Right Wrist in these Gallery Photos:

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/v...se_images&g=11

None of this means, of course, that you don't see a lot of Flattening Right Wrists during the Follow-Through on the PGA TOUR (Phil Mickelson is the poster boy). But it wasn't that way with many of the great strikers from Hogan to Trevino to Nelson (Byron or Larry).

[golfbulldog]

04-30-2006, 01:50 PM
Yoda
Administrator Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 4,629

The Eight Imperatives? CE#46

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by golfingrandy
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bee1dee
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogan53
Yes I feel the same way just thought I'd throw the question out there. Everytime I find it it's the 1979 not 75 edition. Im very interested to see the five different stages!! as well as the putting strokes/5 imperatives.

Peter




Better late than never, What were the 5 imperatives?




The 5 Imperatives showed up in the 2nd Edition:

1) Stationary Head

2) Balance

3) Rhythm

4) Flat Left Wrist

5) Clubhead Lag

They remained the same for the 3rd Edition.

The change took place in the 4th Edition which remains the same today. This was the beginning of the 3 Imperatives with the 3 Essentials.




Interesting stuff! And it gets even more interesting because there were actually Eight Imperatives in the 2nd and 3rd editions!

The first five referenced above did not have a paragraph reference of their own. Instead, they appeared in the first paragraph of 2-0 General. And then there were...

The Three Hand Action Imperatives of 6-H-0 written in all capitals:

A. ALLOW NOT THE SLIGHTEST UNINTENTI8OONAL CHANGE OF PRESSURE POINT PRESSURE;
B. ALLOW NOT THE SLIGHEST MOVE TO PREPARE TO SWIGN THE CLUB FROM THE WRIST;

C. ALLOW NOT THE SLIGHTEST PREPARATION TO BRING THE HANDS TO A STOP.



These Three Hand Imperatives found their ultimate identity as Quitting, the Second of the Four Snares. They now exist only as a memory and as the genesis of 3-F-7-B. Like 'Dear Old Great-Grandad,' they are gone, but not forgotten.

And now you know...

The rest of the story!

__________________
Yoda




Above is series of thread in archives under chapter 1 - eight imperatives... but it has so much to offer with regards quitting.


MASSIVE FONT SIZE / bold / italic CHANGE BY ME

it makes much more sense to my mind when phrased like this rather than in the quitting section and is so important i can see why it was an early "imperative" it makes the retention of a passive PP1 sensation something to strive for. I found that it makes my right shoulder go more down plane than anything i have tried before!! this is the way i understand "hands controlled pivot" - get the body to do whatever is needed so that the correct pressure point sensations are maintained in swinging - including pp1 in swinging - but passive pp1.

[noproblemos]

The left wrist ideally- normally - stays flat not only through impact but through the follow-through and through the swivel. That is one of the fundamental alignments.

How the right wrist moves while that happens is of lesser importance. That said, it normally flattens from impact to follow- through- certainly on full shots...But the real judgement is up to you- look at alot of different swing sequences of professional players- not just one here or there. See if you see the right wrist flattening between release and the follow-through.

This contradicts what has been posted by the Doctors on these TGM-related forums over the last 4 years.

[annikan skywalker]

This contradicts what has been posted by the Doctors on these TGM-related forums over the last 4 years.

This is what Lynn taught us a Pine Needles... it swivels the shaft perfectly onto the same plane as the sweetspot for the finish onto the face of the inlcined plane

All pending on griptype, hinge action, and selected plane angle

[noproblemos]

Hi Annikan,
I'm referring to the statement that MikeO made about the right wrist flattening from impact to both arms straight.

Doesn't the trailing wrist stay bent until followthrough? Hasn't that been taught in these forums?

But it DOES seem that a lot of Tour players' flatten their trailing wrist after impact and before followthrough (unless they're trying for a fade).

This is what Lynn taught us a Pine Needles...it wasn't until after Woodmont that I noticed posts saying the left wrist is still flat in the finish swivel...Personally I agree with the former for it swivels the shaft perfectly onto the same plane as the sweetspot for the finish while the latter over -rotates the shaft off plane with the sweetspot and the golf clubface appears over rolled and looking to the ground instead of the face of the inlcined plane

All pending on griptype, hinge action, and selected plane angle

[golfer24]

Looking at a face on video of a tour player swing even in slow motion it is a 2 dimensional image so it appears to the eye that the right wrist at followthrough both arms straight is flat but in my opinion it is not. Thats not to say either that it is still fully bent through centrifugal forces it has moved towards a flat condition but not completely flatened out. It would be far more beneficial to have a camera positioned directly pointing at the player from an up-line camera angle to get a better image of this.

[Yoda]

Doesn't the trailing wrist stay bent until followthrough? Hasn't that been taught in these forums?

But it DOES seem that a lot of Tour players' flatten their trailing wrist after impact and before followthrough (unless they're trying for a fade).

Check out my Acquired Motion sequence at http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/gallery.../yoda_aquired/ .

In Row 7, Frames 20 and 21, the Left Wrist has remained Flat and the Right Wrist has remained Bent. The Clubshaft has continued to point at the Straight Plane Line. I have hit many thousands of short Chips and Pitches to acquire the alignments you see here. They most certainly were not 'natural' -- at least not for me.

The Sequence also demonstrates the correct Finish Swivel (beginning in Row 8 ). Here, both Wrists Swivel to their On Plane location for the Finish. The Left Wrist remains Flat as it Rolls palm-up to the Plane. In concert, the Right Wrist loses its Bend and becomes Flat as it Rolls palm-down to the Plane. Note that the butt-end of the Clubshaft continues to point at the Plane Line.

This Finish Swivel is not exaggerated, i.e., the Flat Left Wrist Swivels to the Inclined Plane, not to the Horizontal Plane. Accordingly, the Clubface is also On Plane and not Swiveled Face Down to the Ground. However, for Steering Addicts -- and that includes virtually all higher handicap players and many lower ones as well -- even this On Plane Swivel will Feel quite exaggerated. Most players simply have no idea how much Left Forearm Rotation is required to execute the correct Swivel.

As the Left Wrist re-Cocks into the Finish -- best viewed from down-the-line -- the Wrist will appear to Bend somewhat. However, this is the consequence of the natural perpendicular 'hammering motion' of the Wrist that maintains the Left Arm and Clubshaft In-Line. It is not the Horizontal Motion of a true Wrist Bend that throws the Clubshaft ahead of the Left Arm and destroys Rhythm.

[12 piece bucket]

Check out my Acquired Motion sequence at http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/gallery.../yoda_aquired/ .

In Row 7, Frames 20 and 21, the Left Wrist has remained Flat and the Right Wrist has remained Bent. The Clubshaft has continued to point at the Straight Plane Line. I have hit many thousands of short Chips and Pitches to acquire the alignments you see here. They most certainly were not 'natural' -- at least not for me.

The Sequence also demonstrates the correct Finish Swivel (beginning in Row 8 ). Here, both Wrists Swivel to their On Plane location for the Finish. The Left Wrist remains Flat as it Rolls palm-up to the Plane. In concert, the Right Wrist loses its Bend and becomes Flat as it Rolls palm-down to the Plane. Note that the butt-end of the Clubshaft continues to point at the Plane Line.

This Finish Swivel is not exaggerated, i.e., the Flat Left Wrist Swivels to the Inclined Plane, not to the Horizontal Plane. Accordingly, the Clubface is also On Plane and not Swiveled Face Down to the Ground. However, for Steering Addicts -- and that includes virtually all higher handicap players and many lower ones as well -- even this On Plane Swivel will Feel quite exaggerated. Most players simply have no idea how much Left Forearm Rotation is required to execute the correct Swivel.

As the Left Wrist re-Cocks into the Finish -- best viewed from down-the-line -- the Wrist will appear to Bend somewhat. However, this is the consequence of the natural perpendicular 'hammering motion' of the Wrist that maintains the Left Arm and Clubshaft In-Line. It is not the Horizontal Motion of a true Wrist Bend that throws the Clubshaft ahead of the Left Arm and destroys Rhythm.

I can hear it now . . . "Rich you doofus!!!

How do you take someone who doesn't have enough DOWN and get them to do DOWN AND Swivel too?

[Mike O]

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ad.php?p=26202

The left wrist ideally- normally - stays flat not only through impact but through the follow-through and through the swivel. That is one of the fundamental alignments.

How the right wrist moves while that happens is of lesser importance. That said, it normally flattens from impact to follow- through- certainly on full shots.

In addition, assuming theoretically that you have a palm facing grip (not saying anyone does)- then if you have forearm rotation- maintaining a flat left wrist would mean that the right wrist flattens. Conversely, if you maintained a bent right wrist angle while having both forearms rotating then the left wrist would be required to arch.

So the key is if you have no forearm rotation from impact to follow-through- then yes you'll need to have the impact fix degree of right wrist bend or you will have left wrist bend if the right wrist flattens.

I don't think that you'll find in the Golfing Machine that it's talked about maintaining an impact fix degree of bend into the follow-through. Because specifically for swinging and the use of centrifugal force, that would really be more of an "un-golf like" motion than "golf like" on full shots.

I'm not really sure where this misconception comes from - I guess the assumption that if the right wrist flattens that you automatically have the left wrist bending- which is not the case. However, that thought would basically lead to an exaggerated aberation.


But the real judgement is up to you- look at alot of different swing sequences of professional players- not just one here or there. See if you see the right wrist flattening between release and the follow-through.

Just wanted to clarify my post so it's not mis-interpreted-

"That said, it normally flattens from impact to follow- through- certainly on full shots."

When I said flattens - I meant that it had lost some of it's bend- that could be anywhere from a little or alot. But I wasn't necessarily saying that it moves from bent to flat - from impact to follow-through. Although it may - my comment on the right wrist was not that limiting.

Did anyone assume something that I didn't say?- No, not necessarily - but I wasn't sure so I wanted to clarify my post in case someone was thinking something different than I said.

Finally, my post was made in the context of a palms facing grip i.e. Strong Single Action Grip- in reality you'll be hard pressed to find a palms facing grip anywhere- that's why I prefaced my post with the word "theoretically". Normally, most all grips are double action in that as the left wrist is cocking the right wrist is bending and as the left wrist is uncocking the right wrist is flattening.