Hitting Curves

[Kumabjorn]

Looking at all the key PGA stats for 2006 there is one stat (other than scoring average) that stands out -- Par 5 Birdie Leaders
The top three:
1 1 Vijay Singh
2 2 Tiger Woods
3 3 Phil Mickelson

And it probably looks about the same for 2007. However, par 3 stats are usually over par. To me that is an indication for the non-bombers to take some advantage with precision irons. Or what about par 4s, more of those than long and short holes.

My memory may fail mer here, but in the days of Palmer, Nicklaus, Player and Trevino they played their longer irons better than the present generation of pros, simply because on a par four they may play driver 5I, where today it is wok-skillet LW #3. So they needed to be good with a 5I on more occasions than only on tee from a par 3...., but I might be a delusional nostalgic.

[Mike O]

#21 06-18-2008, 09:00 AM
Hennybogan
LBG Pro Contributor Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 154

Hogan vs. Tiger

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew
Unfortunately Darruis, YOU ARE WRONG.

Ok lets just go along with these assumptions just for now even though they are heavily weighted towards your arguement.



You don't just divide the driving distance (yards) by the fairway with the half of the fairways width(yards) and expect to find anything useful. All you have found is the difference between a fifteenth of their driving distance - you could of just subtracted their driving distances together and divided by 15 and you would of come up with the same answer....an answer which isn't much use for anyone. It doesn't say much about your maths skills or those of GPStyles who seems to think your akin to Albert Einstein.

The correct differences are these.... I've omitted the sums because you won't understand them anyhow...

Woods hitting 300 yards onto a 30 yard fairway has 5.73197 degrees margin for error.

Hogan hitting 250 yards onto a 30 yard fairway has 6.87963 degrees margin for error.

So hogan at 80% FIR having to be 83.4% less accurate than Woods would only hit the fairway 66% of the time at 300 yards.



So where you plucked this number from I do not know - perhaps you clicked your heels together three times.

The pure maths is pointless to the debate and anyhow the maths becomes more in Tigers favour when you increase the fairway from the super tight hypothetical width you set. I could think of plenty of arguements that when added up make the maths arguement sound silly. It would be like a game of Jenga but its your arguement falling after each one of these blocks (variables you have not accounted for) and you couldn't even set the game properly up to begin with because you suck at Maths.

My feeling is that Wood's golf stroke is better than Hogans... You just wanted to try and own me - You tried and you failed... Try harder next time.

HENNY's Answer

Matthew,

I don't dispute your math. Longer shots on the same angle off line miss the target by more distance. Simple right? Watch the Hogan vs. Snead Shell match at Houston CC. Balls are not just catching the fairway. Hogan is curving the ball so it stays in the center of the fairway as the hole doglegs. "Fit to fairway like hand to glove." This where math gets lost. If the ball is not deflected from the target line, the distance does not factor.

Mike O's Questions:
Henny or anyone else,
I'd like to hear more about working the ball - Both Ways - in regards to course management. How many of the PGA tour pros work the ball both ways - as a particular hole requires? What are some of the common situations or tips for when to work the ball, etc?

Also, Here's my quiz question: When would you NOT want a ball curving in the same direction as the dogleg - "Fit to fairway like hand to glove"?

[12 piece bucket]

#21 06-18-2008, 09:00 AM
Hennybogan
LBG Pro Contributor Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 154

Hogan vs. Tiger

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew
Unfortunately Darruis, YOU ARE WRONG.

Ok lets just go along with these assumptions just for now even though they are heavily weighted towards your arguement.



You don't just divide the driving distance (yards) by the fairway with the half of the fairways width(yards) and expect to find anything useful. All you have found is the difference between a fifteenth of their driving distance - you could of just subtracted their driving distances together and divided by 15 and you would of come up with the same answer....an answer which isn't much use for anyone. It doesn't say much about your maths skills or those of GPStyles who seems to think your akin to Albert Einstein.

The correct differences are these.... I've omitted the sums because you won't understand them anyhow...

Woods hitting 300 yards onto a 30 yard fairway has 5.73197 degrees margin for error.

Hogan hitting 250 yards onto a 30 yard fairway has 6.87963 degrees margin for error.

So hogan at 80% FIR having to be 83.4% less accurate than Woods would only hit the fairway 66% of the time at 300 yards.



So where you plucked this number from I do not know - perhaps you clicked your heels together three times.

The pure maths is pointless to the debate and anyhow the maths becomes more in Tigers favour when you increase the fairway from the super tight hypothetical width you set. I could think of plenty of arguements that when added up make the maths arguement sound silly. It would be like a game of Jenga but its your arguement falling after each one of these blocks (variables you have not accounted for) and you couldn't even set the game properly up to begin with because you suck at Maths.

My feeling is that Wood's golf stroke is better than Hogans... You just wanted to try and own me - You tried and you failed... Try harder next time.

HENNY's Answer

Matthew,

I don't dispute your math. Longer shots on the same angle off line miss the target by more distance. Simple right? Watch the Hogan vs. Snead Shell match at Houston CC. Balls are not just catching the fairway. Hogan is curving the ball so it stays in the center of the fairway as the hole doglegs. "Fit to fairway like hand to glove." This where math gets lost. If the ball is not deflected from the target line, the distance does not factor.

Mike O's Questions:
Henny or anyone else,
I'd like to hear more about working the ball - Both Ways - in regards to course management. How many of the PGA tour pros work the ball both ways - as a particular hole requires? What are some of the common situations or tips for when to work the ball, etc?

Also, Here's my quiz question: When would you NOT want a ball curving in the same direction as the dogleg - "Fit to fairway like hand to glove"?

Someone discovered the bold button and the font drop down . . . .

It is during these times of increased mental capacity that unfortunately people tend to disappear and to later be found bound and gagged . . . dead or worse. If a strange man wearing a Speedo with a potato in the back approaches you at a gas station or a porn shop with breath that smells like he has been licking peoples' arm pits that live at bus stations . . . do not make any sudden moves, return any open mouth kisses, or respond to more than playful slaps on the butt . . . . slowly remove yourself from the area and bathe. This person is extremely dangerous to humans and livestock.

[Mike O]

Someone discovered the bold button and the font drop down . . . .

It is during these times of increased mental capacity that unfortunately people tend to disappear and to later be found bound and gagged . . . dead or worse. If a strange man wearing a Speedo with a potato in the back approaches you at a gas station or a porn shop with breath that smells like he has been licking peoples' arm pits that live at bus stations . . . do not make any sudden moves, return any open mouth kisses, or respond to more than playful slaps on the butt . . . . slowly remove yourself from the area and bathe. This person is extremely dangerous to humans and livestock.

Bagger has no idea how many "lurkers" are really worm infested bodies in my backyard! But my ultimate catch will be when the 12 piece goes silent.

[Bagger Lance]

Bagger has no idea how many "lurkers" are really worm infested bodies in my backyard! But my ultimate catch will be when the 12 piece goes silent.

Rumor has it that MikeO is moving to the East Coast soon. Its making a lot more sense now. Bigger backyard needed and closer to "the prize". Bucket has been very quiet here lately. Is he changing identity?

[Mike O]

Rumor has it that MikeO is moving to the East Coast soon. Its making a lot more sense now. Bigger backyard needed and closer to "the prize". Bucket has been very quiet here lately. Is he changing identity?

He is going through an identity change but I really thought that was too personal - to be discussed on the forum. Bagger, due to how busy he is - could you access his personal profile and update his interests from just BBQ to "BBQ, Goats, and Threadjacking"- I think that for new forum members coming on to the site- that might be helpful information.
Thanks!

[12 piece bucket]

He is going through an identity change but I really thought that was too personal - to be discussed on the forum. Bagger, due to how busy he is - could you access his personal profile and update his interests from just BBQ to "BBQ, Goats, and Threadjacking"- I think that for new forum members coming on to the site- that might be helpful information.
Thanks!

I think the "thread" part is a bit too specific . . . If you take that part away . . . we're probably good.

Also . . . do you mean BBQ'd goat or BBQ & goats? Just want to be sure that our selected language communicates the intended message with precision . . . . the precision is certainly in the details.

By the way . . . did that sore on your lip clear up?

[Hennybogan]

#21 06-18-2008, 09:00 AM
Hennybogan
LBG Pro Contributor Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 154

Hogan vs. Tiger

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew
Unfortunately Darruis, YOU ARE WRONG.

Ok lets just go along with these assumptions just for now even though they are heavily weighted towards your arguement.



You don't just divide the driving distance (yards) by the fairway with the half of the fairways width(yards) and expect to find anything useful. All you have found is the difference between a fifteenth of their driving distance - you could of just subtracted their driving distances together and divided by 15 and you would of come up with the same answer....an answer which isn't much use for anyone. It doesn't say much about your maths skills or those of GPStyles who seems to think your akin to Albert Einstein.

The correct differences are these.... I've omitted the sums because you won't understand them anyhow...

Woods hitting 300 yards onto a 30 yard fairway has 5.73197 degrees margin for error.

Hogan hitting 250 yards onto a 30 yard fairway has 6.87963 degrees margin for error.

So hogan at 80% FIR having to be 83.4% less accurate than Woods would only hit the fairway 66% of the time at 300 yards.



So where you plucked this number from I do not know - perhaps you clicked your heels together three times.

The pure maths is pointless to the debate and anyhow the maths becomes more in Tigers favour when you increase the fairway from the super tight hypothetical width you set. I could think of plenty of arguements that when added up make the maths arguement sound silly. It would be like a game of Jenga but its your arguement falling after each one of these blocks (variables you have not accounted for) and you couldn't even set the game properly up to begin with because you suck at Maths.

My feeling is that Wood's golf stroke is better than Hogans... You just wanted to try and own me - You tried and you failed... Try harder next time.

HENNY's Answer

Matthew,

I don't dispute your math. Longer shots on the same angle off line miss the target by more distance. Simple right? Watch the Hogan vs. Snead Shell match at Houston CC. Balls are not just catching the fairway. Hogan is curving the ball so it stays in the center of the fairway as the hole doglegs. "Fit to fairway like hand to glove." This where math gets lost. If the ball is not deflected from the target line, the distance does not factor.

Mike O's Questions:
Henny or anyone else,
I'd like to hear more about working the ball - Both Ways - in regards to course management. How many of the PGA tour pros work the ball both ways - as a particular hole requires? What are some of the common situations or tips for when to work the ball, etc?

Also, Here's my quiz question: When would you NOT want a ball curving in the same direction as the dogleg - "Fit to fairway like hand to glove"?

Mike O,

Sorry about the delay. There might be a situation with a sloping fairway or something like that.

Most pros would like to think that they curve it both ways at will, but few of them have the control to consistantly pull off the shots. Basically, they play their standard shot and curve it less when they want to "work it the other way."

Many pros do work the ball with or against the wind with mid irons. They often change the trajectory.

My advice would be to play the shape you are most comfortable with and adjust your aim. Personally, I like to draw the ball, but I do have a standard cut tee shot when there are trees too close on the right.

Early time tomorrow, off to bed.

[Yoda]

Early time tomorrow, off to bed.

That would be at 7:23 a.m. on John Riegger's bag at the Legends Reno-Tahoe Open http://www.pgatour.com/tournaments/r472/, playing with 2-time U.S. Open winner Lee Janzen and Charles Warren. Good luck, Henny and John!

[Mike O]

Mike O,

Sorry about the delay. There might be a situation with a sloping fairway or something like that.

Most pros would like to think that they curve it both ways at will, but few of them have the control to consistantly pull off the shots. Basically, they play their standard shot and curve it less when they want to "work it the other way."

Many pros do work the ball with or against the wind with mid irons. They often change the trajectory.

My advice would be to play the shape you are most comfortable with and adjust your aim. Personally, I like to draw the ball, but I do have a standard cut tee shot when there are trees too close on the right.

Early time tomorrow, off to bed.

Thanks,
Nice to know and Yes, that was the answer that I had in mind- I was playing a hole at a course which I wasn't familiar with and the third time around I finally realized that because it sloped so much to the right and also the dogleg was to the right and since the fairway was fairly hard and fast- I created a much bigger fairway by moving the shot against the hill and in a direction opposite from the movement of the dogleg.