Moe Norman's swing

[Bigwill]

Moe Norman

I have been studying Moe Norman's swing and I believe that there are many inaccurate perceptions of MN's swing. For example, some golfers believe that i) he shifted planes, ii) that he swung on the TSP; iii) that he had zero accumulator #3 angle and iv) that he gripped the club in his left palm.

I believe, based on studying all the material at Moe Norman Golf Academy, that all these beliefs are incorrect.

Here is a link to a previous thread on MN.

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ght=moe+norman

In that thread there is a DTL sequence of photos which implies that MN shifted planes. However, the camera angle is not directly behind MN, and I believe that the "apparent" plane shift is due to camera angle parallax error.

Consider this DTL view as viewed from the front.

http://moenormangolfacademy.org/inst...efinition.aspx

I believe that it shows that his i) left arm is not perfectly in line with his clubshaft at address (not a zero PA#3 angle alignment); ii) that his swingplane is slightly below the TSP; and iii) that he swings on a single plane without any plane shift.

If you are not convinced, watch these videos of his swing (registration, which is free, may be required).

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...ctid1494878341

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...ctid1557806826

Watch his driver swing in the above video clinic and see if you can identify any plane shift.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...ctid1678226166

I think that MN's swing very closely resembles an Iron Byron swing.

Ken Martin of the MNGA, also has a discussion of MN's grip and he states that the the heel pad of MN's left hand was above the grip, and that he didn't have a left hand palm grip.

Jeff.

If no plane shift means that the club travels up and down the same line, the Mo dosen't have a no-shift swing in that video. The clubhead is more inside/shallow on the backswing than it is on the downswing, isn't it?

[Jeff]

Bigwill

I don't think that he takes his clubshaft more inside on the backswing if you view his swing from a DTL view (seen from the front).



Image 1 is his clubshaft plane at address. Image 2 and 3 show the clubshaft plane during the backswing with image 3 showing the end-backswing clubshaft plane. Image 4 is a composite image of image 1 and image 3.

Jeff.

[pistol]

Bigwill

I don't think that he takes his clubshaft more inside on the backswing if you view his swing from a DTL view (seen from the front).



Image 1 is his clubshaft plane at address. Image 2 and 3 show the clubshaft plane during the backswing with image 3 showing the end-backswing clubshaft plane. Image 4 is a composite image of image 1 and image 3.

Jeff.

so the plane has shifted up but its a zero shift

[Jeff]

Pistol

By my relaxed standards, that degree of plane shift is so small that it represents a zero plane shift backswing. More importantly, plane shift is only important in the downswing, and I don't think that MN shifts planes in the downswing.

Jeff.

[Bigwill]

Pistol

By my relaxed standards, that degree of plane shift is so small that it represents a zero plane shift backswing. More importantly, plane shift is only important in the downswing, and I don't think that MN shifts planes in the downswing.

Jeff.

This is where you may run into misunderstandings. Your definition of plane shift is different, or at least more narrow, than the TGM definition. If you're saying that he dosen't shift from the top down, you may be right. But he does go through shifts from address to the top.

[Jeff]

Bigwill

Those stills were derived from a swing video.

Here is a link - you can come to your own conclusions.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...ctid1494878341

Here is another swing video of interest.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...ctid1678226166

Jeff.

[johnnyg]

Pistol

By my relaxed standards, that degree of plane shift is so small that it represents a zero plane shift backswing. More importantly, plane shift is only important in the downswing, and I don't think that MN shifts planes in the downswing.

Jeff.

Jeff
I think it is best left as either someone shifts or they don't, not that he hardly shifts so lets ignore it. TGM is a precise system remember "not incomplete or vague"
John g

[Jeff]

John

I think that you have misunderstood my position.

I agree that a golfer either shifts planes or he doesn't shift planes, and that there is no middle ground.

When I state that I have relaxed standards, it doesn't apply to the above statement. It applies to the accuracy of demonstrating a plane shift using still photographs from swing videos which are not free of camera angle distortion. The small degree of lifting up of the clubshaft above the clubshaft-at-address plane during the backswing in those still photos that I obtained from a swing video could be due to camera angle distortion, and may not represent a real plane shift.

I have never seen any swing video of MN that is free of camera angle distortion, so we may never be able to incontrovertibly determine whether he had a zero-plane shift swing, or not. However, there is a considerable amount of concordant evidence from multiple swing videos which suggest that he had a zero-plane shift swing.

Jeff.

[pistol]

John

I think that you have misunderstood my position.

I agree that a golfer either shifts planes or he doesn't shift planes, and that there is no middle ground.

When I state that I have relaxed standards, it doesn't apply to the above statement. It applies to the accuracy of demonstrating a plane shift using still photographs from swing videos which are not free of camera angle distortion. The small degree of lifting up of the clubshaft above the clubshaft-at-address plane during the backswing in those still photos that I obtained from a swing video could be due to camera angle distortion, and may not represent a real plane shift.

I have never seen any swing video of MN that is free of camera angle distortion, so we may never be able to incontrovertibly determine whether he had a zero-plane shift swing, or not. However, there is a considerable amount of concordant evidence from multiple swing videos which suggest that he had a zero-plane shift swing.

Jeff.

jeff he shifts up ..its more evident in the longer clubs

[johnnyg]

John

I think that you have misunderstood my position.

I agree that a golfer either shifts planes or he doesn't shift planes, and that there is no middle ground.

When I state that I have relaxed standards, it doesn't apply to the above statement. It applies to the accuracy of demonstrating a plane shift using still photographs from swing videos which are not free of camera angle distortion. The small degree of lifting up of the clubshaft above the clubshaft-at-address plane during the backswing in those still photos that I obtained from a swing video could be due to camera angle distortion, and may not represent a real plane shift.

I have never seen any swing video of MN that is free of camera angle distortion, so we may never be able to incontrovertibly determine whether he had a zero-plane shift swing, or not. However, there is a considerable amount of concordant evidence from multiple swing videos which suggest that he had a zero-plane shift swing.

Jeff.

Jeff
He shifts planes get over it!!!