Pivot center

[Jeff]

O.B.

You wrote-: "The other other way at looking at this is that he is managing his low point for the shot at hand. The ball forward of low point, his head back in an effort to launch a sky high ball for extreme distance. An artificial uphill type shot."

I disagree. He is making no attempt to hit up on the ball. He simply knows that if he gets his hands opposite his left thigh by impact, that the club's forward kick will cause the clubface to be facing upwards - if the ball is teed a little further.

Jamie Sadlowski was trained by Jason Zuback. There is no hip sway in Jamie's swing. The only difference to Jason Zuback's swing is that Jason positions his head centrally while Jamie positions his head further back - because he knows that he is going to have a lot of secondary axis tilt at impact when he swing his clubhead at >150mph through the impact zone.

Here is a swing video of his swing.

He does not sway in the backswing. Note how he braces his left side to keep in balance. He also needs secondary axis tilt to keep in balance. He only weighs 165lbs and his frame is much smaller than Jason's heavy torso. Jason can perform a more centralised swing and still keep in balance because of his heavy frame, but Jamie's body frame is different and he chooses to have more secondary axis tilt to keep in balance.

Jeff.

p.s. You don't have to worry about "increased secondary axis tilt" hurting my back. I have such little hula hula flexibility that I cannot achieve 50% of Jamie's secondary axis tilt. I guess I don't need it with a clubhead speed of 95mph.

[O.B.Left]

O.B.

You wrote-: "The other other way at looking at this is that he is managing his low point for the shot at hand. The ball forward of low point, his head back in an effort to launch a sky high ball for extreme distance. An artificial uphill type shot."

I disagree. He is making no attempt to hit up on the ball. He simply knows that if he gets his hands opposite his left thigh by impact, that the club's forward kick will cause the clubface to be facing upwards - if the ball is teed a little further.

Jamie Sadlowski was trained by Jason Zuback. There is no hip sway in Jamie's swing. The only difference to Jason Zuback's swing is that Jason positions his head centrally while Jamie positions his head further back - because he knows that he is going to have a lot of secondary axis tilt at impact when he swing his clubhead at >150mph through the impact zone.

Here is a swing video of his swing.

He does not sway in the backswing. Note how he braces his left side to keep in balance. He also needs secondary axis tilt to keep in balance. He only weighs 165lbs and his frame is much smaller than Jason's heavy torso. Jason can perform a more centralised swing and still keep in balance because of his heavy frame, but Jamie's body frame is different and he chooses to have more secondary axis tilt to keep in balance.

Jeff.

p.s. You don't have to worry about "increased secondary axis tilt" hurting my back. I have such little hula hula flexibility that I cannot achieve 50% of Jamie's secondary axis tilt. I guess I don't need it with a clubhead speed of 95mph.

Jeff
Dont get me wrong I am very impressed by his swing given what it was built to do. I see a lot of good fundamentals for a monster. Never said he swayed, dont even have an opinion.

With the ball in front of low point which way is his club head going: Down , out and forward, or up, in and forward?

O.B.

[Jeff]

You wrote-: "With the ball in front of low point which way is his club head going: Down , out and forward, or up, in and forward? "

Is has to be going up and not down. However that is significantly due to the club's independent kick-point action where the peripheral end of the clubshaft is not traveling in perfect straight-line-unison with the central part of the clubshaft. If you look at the central part of his clubshaft you will note that it has forward shaft lean - due to the fact that he is actually trying to get his hands ahead of the ball by impact. If he didn't have that much forward central shaft lean at impact, then he would be hitting more up at the ball at the exact moment of impact and he would lose considerable distance to a high ball flight trajectory.

In other words, although his clubhead is going up at impact, his thrust action is down-and-out-and-forward, and not up-and-in.

Jeff.

[Jeff]

12PB You wrote-: "To hit the ball far . . . you extend from the feet up . . . each segment . . . . probably the biggest segment (really bunch of little segments) is the spine . . . . people who hit it really really long EXTEND/stretch out their spine . ."

I agree that long drive competitors need to brace their spine and left leg for maximum stability and I think that goal is best achieved when the spine is straight (extended) and the left leg is straight (extended), and the spine is angled back slightly so that the skeletal axis from the head to the left foot is optimised for power and balance.

Your photos demonstrate that even Jason has considerable secondary axis tilt at impact.

Jeff.

[12 piece bucket]

O.B.

You wrote-: "The other other way at looking at this is that he is managing his low point for the shot at hand. The ball forward of low point, his head back in an effort to launch a sky high ball for extreme distance. An artificial uphill type shot."

I disagree. He is making no attempt to hit up on the ball. He simply knows that if he gets his hands opposite his left thigh by impact, that the club's forward kick will cause the clubface to be facing upwards - if the ball is teed a little further.

Jamie Sadlowski was trained by Jason Zuback. There is no hip sway in Jamie's swing. The only difference to Jason Zuback's swing is that Jason positions his head centrally while Jamie positions his head further back - because he knows that he is going to have a lot of secondary axis tilt at impact when he swing his clubhead at >150mph through the impact zone.

Here is a swing video of his swing.

He does not sway in the backswing. Note how he braces his left side to keep in balance. He also needs secondary axis tilt to keep in balance. He only weighs 165lbs and his frame is much smaller than Jason's heavy torso. Jason can perform a more centralised swing and still keep in balance because of his heavy frame, but Jamie's body frame is different and he chooses to have more secondary axis tilt to keep in balance.

Jeff.

p.s. You don't have to worry about "increased secondary axis tilt" hurting my back. I have such little hula hula flexibility that I cannot achieve 50% of Jamie's secondary axis tilt. I guess I don't need it with a clubhead speed of 95mph.

To hit the ball far . . . you extend from the feet up . . . each segment . . . . probably the biggest segment (really bunch of little segments) is the spine . . . . people who hit it really really long EXTEND/stretch out their spine . . .







Zuback even extends his spine on the back stroke ala Monty . .



No PIE HERE EITHER . . . . no reverse K

[O.B.Left]

To hit the ball far . . . you extend from the feet up . . . each segment . . . . probably the biggest segment (really bunch of little segments) is the spine . . . . people who hit it really really long EXTEND/stretch out their spine . . .







Zuback even extends his spine on the back stroke ala Monty . .



No PIE HERE EITHER . . . . no reverse K

Bucky

Whats the explanation of this phenomena? Does it have a practical application for the tournament golfer under normal conditions?

Dont be scared, this aint a trap. I dont care what you are reading or anything.

PM me if you want.

O.B.

[12 piece bucket]

Bucky

Whats the explanation of this phenomena? Does it have a practical application for the tournament golfer under normal conditions?

Dont be scared, this aint a trap. I dont care what you are reading or anything.

PM me if you want.

O.B.

I think that's just the way it works . . . go check out some tennis serves . . . . it's the extension of the different levers/segments . . .

[Bigwill]

O.B.

You wrote-: "The other other way at looking at this is that he is managing his low point for the shot at hand. The ball forward of low point, his head back in an effort to launch a sky high ball for extreme distance. An artificial uphill type shot."

I disagree. He is making no attempt to hit up on the ball. He simply knows that if he gets his hands opposite his left thigh by impact, that the club's forward kick will cause the clubface to be facing upwards - if the ball is teed a little further.


I'm pretty sure he's trying to hit the ball on the upswing. That's like longriver 101. If he didn't, he wouldn't hit the ball high enough. They can't get the launch conditions they're after by simply relying on the forward kick of the club; that wouldn't be enough with a 5* driver. That's why most of them play the ball so far forward, with it teed up so high. When I competed (or tried to is a more accurate statement) I teed the entire ball above the clubhead to try to knock the spin off my driver. I wasn't alone.


Jamie Sadlowski was trained by Jason Zuback. There is no hip sway in Jamie's swing. The only difference to Jason Zuback's swing is that Jason positions his head centrally while Jamie positions his head further back - because he knows that he is going to have a lot of secondary axis tilt at impact when he swing his clubhead at >150mph through the impact zone.



I don't think it's accurate to say that Sadlowski was trained by Zuback. He's played since he was 4 years old, and he didn't meet Zuback until he'd made it to Mesquite for the first time. As far as their swings are concerned, they're as different as night from day. I think the only similarities are that they're both short and Canadian


Here is a swing video of his swing.

He does not sway in the backswing. Note how he braces his left side to keep in balance. He also needs secondary axis tilt to keep in balance. He only weighs 165lbs and his frame is much smaller than Jason's heavy torso. Jason can perform a more centralised swing and still keep in balance because of his heavy frame, but Jamie's body frame is different and he chooses to have more secondary axis tilt to keep in balance.

Jeff.

p.s. You don't have to worry about "increased secondary axis tilt" hurting my back. I have such little hula hula flexibility that I cannot achieve 50% of Jamie's secondary axis tilt. I guess I don't need it with a clubhead speed of 95mph.

Not trying to give you a hard time, Jeff. Just clearing some things up.

[Yoda]

O.B.

You wrote-: "The other other way at looking at this is that he is managing his low point for the shot at hand. The ball forward of low point, his head back in an effort to launch a sky high ball for extreme distance. An artificial uphill type shot."

I disagree. He is making no attempt to hit up on the ball. He simply knows that if he gets his hands opposite his left thigh by impact, that the club's forward kick will cause the clubface to be facing upwards - if the ball is teed a little further.

Jeff,

Where in his post did O.B. Left say that Jason Zuback was attempting to 'hit up'? Reread his post. What he 'said' and what you 'heard' are two totally different things. I'll save you some trouble, here is what this very educated golfer deliberately said: ". . . the ball struck on the upswing, the ball teed high and inside the base of the plane."

In other words, with the Ball properly teed post-Low Point, there is no need to 'hit up'. The Clubhead Orbit (2-N-0) goes DOWN (and OUT) to Low Point and then it moves UP (and IN) thereafter. Hence, O.B.'s observation that the Ball must be "teed high and inside the base of the plane". So, for those who understand and implement these Geometric Basics . . . Just swing. The resulting Upstroke is God's Plan.

And, Jeff, you need to seriously investigate this "forward kick" stuff. At some point, no doubt you will. But no fair relying on manufacturer's 'claims' (advertising) or TOUR players paid opinion (more advertising) . . . we're looking for independent research and PROOF This should keep you busy for awhile once we've thoroughly hammered-down all this Pivot stuff. We here at LBG are with you all the way!

Meanwhile . . .

Know that the 'Centrifugal Line of Pull' is between the Sweetspot and the #3 Pressure Point (Right Forefinger). [BTW, did you notice the bandages on Mr. Zubak's right forefinger and thumb? I thought you did!] If the Clubshaft's inertia can keep up with this Line of Pull -- highly doubtful with the LongDrive MuscleMen -- then you will have a straight-line relationship. Otherwise, the Shaft will evidence its parabolic bend between the two.

You interpret this Shaft Bend as "Kick" that Lays Back the Clubface. The truth is that Shaft Bend itself supplies neither 'Kick' nor 'LayBack'. For Swingers, it supplies only Centripetal Force. For Hitters, it supplies both Centripetal Force and something to Push against through Impact.

[O.B.Left]

Jeff,

here is what this very educated golfer deliberately said: ". . . the ball struck on the upswing, the ball teed high and inside the base of the plane."

In other words, with the Ball properly teed post-Low Point, there is no need to 'hit up'. The Clubhead Orbit (2-N-0) goes DOWN (and OUT) to Low Point and then it moves UP (and IN). Hence, O.B.'s observation that the Ball must be "teed high and inside the base of the plane". So, for those who understand and implement these Geometric Basics . . . Just swing. The resulting Upstroke is God's Plan.

Thanks Yoda

You know it's really your own words and Mr Kelley's that are coming back at you all garbled up.

Hope you didnt read my post 88 where I threw it all away like a Sunday afternoon hacker. Dont think that stuff is in the book and probably has HK tossing in his grave. I blame Daryl and Golfgnome.

O.B.