Eldrick Picture..good?bad? depends?

[12 piece bucket]

Impossible for someone to say this is good or bad by itself depending on so many other factors........but IMHO as of now, Tiger is still struggling with driving because he has too much lean. Foley changed the pivot but he kept the lean /lag required from when the pivot was back. Takes a lot of up and back to line that up from that picture and very difficult to be consistent.

What factors? Can they not be defined?

[JTillery]

Sure! Just not from a still photo.....that one in particular
Whether or not that's a "good" position would depend on (1)what type of shot he is trying to hit there:bullet-good position ......high draw: not so much
PLANE ANGLE, BALL POSITION, LEAN, AND WEIGHT SHIFT OR PIVOT IN GENERAL ARE ALL HUGE FACTORS that are intertwined and all have a role in the outcome of the overall pattern. To simply say this angle is good or bad is just SO incomplete.

[12 piece bucket]

Sure! Just not from a still photo.....that one in particular
Whether or not that's a "good" position would depend on (1)what type of shot he is trying to hit there:bullet-good position ......high draw bomb:bad position
(2) for a stock tee ball and neutral type trajectory and shape, PLANE ANGLE, BALL POSITION, AND WEIGHT SHIFT OR PIVOT IN GENERAL BECOME HUGE FACTORS

to your (1)So are we to assume that draws and high are "out" from here? Others in the thread are covetous of this photo....Eldrick can't hit it high or draw it from here? If so why?

to your (2) is this not a "stock" position?

[JTillery]

Tiger may be able to hit it high and drawing from here.......but no, no one typing about golf swings. Lot of work to arrive at a shallow angle of attack from that position. Super quick release along with a literal vertical jump to help aid the throwout. I assume everyone likes the big angle, which can be rewarding......but there are some other elements. Left arm and shaft angle is only one element. What about that pivot? That spine angle? Everyone in this thread may be covetous of the angle assuming its a power aide, but if most people , as in almost everyone, got into that position.....fore left. Again, IMHO

[12 piece bucket]

Tiger may be able to hit it high and drawing from here.......but no, no one typing about golf swings. Lot of work to arrive at a shallow angle of attack from that position. Super quick release along with a literal vertical jump to help aid the throwout. I assume everyone likes the big angle, which can be rewarding......but there are some other elements. Left arm and shaft angle is only one element. What about that pivot? That spine angle? Everyone in this thread may be covetous of the angle assuming its a power aide, but if most people , as in almost everyone, got into that position.....fore left. Again, IMHO

So what exactly is the logic behind the "I want to look like that" would you say? We are still fundamentally operating under the assumption as you state above that that "look" "position" is a "power aide".....is it? If this picture makes some "goo goo"...and some say this is "perfect"....but you say that "most people" end up fore left....is it a model position? Or is it chasing a "look"?

To this point those that say "wow that looks awesome"....haven't effectively defended as I see it why it is "awesome".....

[JTillery]

From here, Eldrick must COMPENSATE for the disrupted shoulder to ball radius caused by the bobbing of his head, (as described as a "power move" by his current swing instructor Sean Foley in THIS article).

So what exactly is the logic behind the "I want to look like that" would you say? We are still fundamentally operating under the assumption as you state above that that "look" "position" is a "power aide".....is it? If this picture makes some "goo goo"...and some say this is "perfect"....but you say that "most people" end up fore left....is it a model position? Or is it chasing a "look"?

To this point those that say "wow that looks awesome"....haven't effectively defended as I see it why it is "awesome".....

Great question bucket. All we've ever heard is to hold angles, hold angles, hold angles. So when people see an illustration that could be described as a "held" angle, they love it. Truth is, Tiger isn't attempting to "hold" anything. He's preparing to knock the fire out of something. Athletically, he just ends up with angle that deep because, we'll, that's more ammo to knock the fire out of something with. That particular element just gets a lot of attention.....but what's the difference in it and a slightly different pivot with a little less angle for the average guy. (Not Tiger, he's already there) Understandably, we still need roll at least to some degree from that position to square the face, but most of the business left to do from that position would be the uncocking, the number two PA, which will be sending the club down. (Particularly if there is "bobbing" down then up). Wouldn't be much different than having a bit steeper plane angle, or a more forward pivot, but a little less angle. Now trust me, I understand that most players and all bad players have no lag, no lead, and bent left wrists before the balls off the face. I think because of this, that Tiger position is viewed as the anti hack, the anti throwaway, etc. Its also validated because almost all the good players get into a position at least more similar to that than left arm and shaft in line two feet before the ball. The deal though, is that zero of them are trying to get into that position. None of them are trying to hold angles. Even if they say so for a playing lessons for the pros or something on golf channel. Never crosses their minds in the real world. Its a product of proper physics, proper kinematic sequences. They just are able to create speed and have it max out where the ball sits. A still photo of what appears to be retained angle is just the obvious result, but never ever the goal.

[12 piece bucket]

Great question bucket. All we've ever heard is to hold angles, hold angles, hold angles. So when people see an illustration that could be described as a "held" angle, they love it. Truth is, Tiger isn't attempting to "hold" anything. He's preparing to knock the fire out of something. Athletically, he just ends up with angle that deep because, we'll, that's more ammo to knock the fire out of something with. That particular element just gets a lot of attention.....but what's the difference in it and a slightly different pivot with a little less angle for the average guy. (Not Tiger, he's already there) Understandably, we still need roll at least to some degree from that position to square the face, but most of the business left to do from that position would be the uncocking, the number two PA, which will be sending the club down. (Particularly if there is "bobbing" down then up). Wouldn't be much different than having a bit steeper plane angle, or a more forward pivot, but a little less angle. Now trust me, I understand that most players and all bad players have no lag, no lead, and bent left wrists before the balls off the face. I think because of this, that Tiger position is viewed as the anti hack, the anti throwaway, etc. Its also validated because almost all the good players get into a position at least more similar to that than left arm and shaft in line two feet before the ball. The deal though, is that zero of them are trying to get into that position. None of them are trying to hold angles. Even if they say so for a playing lessons for the pros or something on golf channel. Never crosses their minds in the real world. Its a product of proper physics, proper kinematic sequences. They just are able to create speed and have it max out where the ball sits. A still photo of what appears to be retained angle is just the obvious result, but never ever the goal.

Are we sure Eldrick isn't being taught this? Some cats saying "that's a CP cut"....whatever that means.....