How Flat is Flat?

[Mathew]

Mathew,

If the back of the left hand faces down the angle of approach at impact fix, with the left arm and clubshaft in line, then is it perfectly vertical to the horizontal plane (horz Hing)? I'm a little confused here.

If you imagine the whole primary lever assembly (left arm and club) flat against a door to represent the plane of the hinge action that your left wrist is vertical to at fix, the wristcock motion during the stroke will make the clubhead go up and down that door in a perpendicular motion.

I agree with what you are saying. Wristcock perpendicular/clubhead motion. But does that mean that all weak single action grips will have no slight bend at the top and all strong single action grips will? Even my questions sound foggy.

The golfing machine defines weak and strong differently than the rest of the golfing world. Homer Kelley defined a strong grip as one that the pressure points where on plane otherwise it is labelled weak. The 'golf digest world' labels it dependant on how turned the hand is.....

The more turned the hand is at impact fix - the more the perpendicular motion of the left will move from wristcock to wristbend.

[birdie_man]

The flying wedges maintain the correct impact alignments during the stroke. If you teach someone to change these alignments during the stroke it isn't 'doing it right' by Brian Manzella, its 'doing it wrong' by Brian Manzella. I don't care if its a 10 handicapper or a golfer who's average drive goes 30 yards - The only shortcuts are more and more know how. The flying wedges is a piece of that know how.

But if it works....is it really doing it wrong?

[Mathew]

But if it works....is it really doing it wrong?

Thats the problem it doesn't work....

I thought the goal was to simplify motion, not complicate it...

[Daryl]

Mathew,

Yes, I understand. I use both Horizontal and angled Hinging effectively. I swing. My confusion may exist in the definitions of weak and strong. I agree with strong having the pressure points on the aft side of the shaft and pressure toward the angle of approach. Anything left of that is weak. But let me ask you this: In a strong single action grip, can there be a space between the left thumb and left forefinger? Your answer may solve all my questions. Traditional (less knowledgable) Teaching says yes, but maybe TGM says not necessary but I don't know. Can you answer this?

Also it says somewhere that the #2 pressure point replaces the #3 pressure point in a weak single action grip. Did I say that right. When I get home tonight I'll find the reference.

[tongzilla]

In a strong single action grip, can there be a space between the left thumb and left forefinger?

Yes, there must be a space since the right thumb should be on the aft side of the shaft (when Grip is taken at Impact Fix) to give maximum support during Impact.

[birdie_man]

I understand why it's important to maintain the Wedges....

....

But.....Brian said it works for most of his students.....so I believe him.

....

....he's got a few more lessons under his belt than you or I.

Maybe he'll elaborate more....if there's more elaborating that can be done.

[Mathew]

Mathew,

Yes, I understand. I use both Horizontal and angled Hinging effectively. I swing. My confusion may exist in the definitions of weak and strong. I agree with strong having the pressure points on the aft side of the shaft and pressure toward the angle of approach. Anything left of that is weak. But let me ask you this: In a strong single action grip, can there be a space between the left thumb and left forefinger? Your answer may solve all my questions. Traditional (less knowledgable) Teaching says yes, but maybe TGM says not necessary but I don't know. Can you answer this?

Also it says somewhere that the #2 pressure point replaces the #3 pressure point in a weak single action grip. Did I say that right. When I get home tonight I'll find the reference.

In the photos of 10-2-B you can see quite clearly a gap between the thumb and 1st finger. This is how you can have the left thumb aft and the wrist truely flat against the vertical plane your hinge action requires.... or at least closer to it....

I'll have a look at the book at the weak single action grip later on to answer as im not so familiar with the specific variation... how I wish I had Yoda's capacity for remembering everything...

[12 piece bucket]

In the photos of 10-2-B you can see quite clearly a gap between the thumb and 1st finger. This is how you can have the left thumb aft and the wrist truely flat against the vertical plane your hinge action requires.... or at least closer to it....

I'll have a look at the book at the weak single action grip later on to answer as im not so familiar with the specific variation... how I wish I had Yoda's capacity for remembering everything...

You are doing a fabulous job in this thread Mathew. Enjoying your "holding court." These quotes seem to be very "detailed", but Mathew is pointing out the very PRECISE alignments that are critical to the operation of your Machine bustin' up Plane Lines.

Grip type has a HUGE impact on your release motion. Mathew what is your preferred grip type, release motion and "stock" hinge action?

Great posts!

[Daryl]

Mathew,

Let me correct myself in saying that Traditional Teaching methods want the forefinger and thumb to pinch together ala Ben Hogan. I must agree with you in observing the photos that there is a space between the forefinger and left thumb. I thought perhaps that this was an oversight. However the photos also illustrate that there is a difference in the abount of left hand turn between a weak left hand and strong left hand.

If a space is allowed between the forefinger and thumb on the left hand in a weak single action grip, then how does one resolve the "seems like a problem" left thumb not seating perfect with the grip(ie. thumb pad not in complete contact with the grip). If I turn my left hand like the photo of the strong single action the thumb seats fine. Does it matter?

[Mathew]

You are doing a fabulous job in this thread Mathew. Enjoying your "holding court." These quotes seem to be very "detailed", but Mathew is pointing out the very PRECISE alignments that are critical to the operation of your Machine bustin' up Plane Lines.

Grip type has a HUGE impact on your release motion. Mathew what is your preferred grip type, release motion and "stock" hinge action?

Great posts!

Firstly thank you for your praise .

My procedure for aquired and total motion is a swinging procedure - 10-2-B Grip, Horizontal Hinging. The swinging procedure nessesitates a sequenced release per law of the flail in 2-K. My Basic Motion however is a push basic hitting stroke with angled Hinging.

I have played around with the hitting procedure with some success but in retrospect, at the time I did, my knowledge was lacking.