Ben Hogan's 24 Basic Components

[whip]

No, #3 release(Throwout) is the LFW being driven off-plane by the driving right shoulder in order to deliver the sweetspot to the ball.

What?? Throwout is defined by centrifugal force acting on the clubhead which does effect the roll but more aptly it is the number two accumulator being thrownout. The #4 acc is what is driven out by the right shoulder via the instant acceleration hip action. Etzwayne got it right why would the right shoulder drive the clubhead OFFplane to deliver the sweetspot you don't have to be OFFplane to hit the ball not sure where u came up with that.

[MizunoJoe]

What?? Throwout is defined by centrifugal force acting on the clubhead which does effect the roll but more aptly it is the number two accumulator being thrownout. The #4 acc is what is driven out by the right shoulder via the instant acceleration hip action. Etzwayne got it right why would the right shoulder drive the clubhead OFFplane to deliver the sweetspot you don't have to be OFFplane to hit the ball not sure where u came up with that.

Good grief!

[brianid]

Not sure you're talking about the same move: when you say "elbow turn" I see (and it looks like MizunoJoe too) a movement of the entire arm from the shoulder. That could intefere with the pressure on #4. #3 release is pronation/supination, a movement of the forearm ("wrist movement" in TGM terms).

Yeah, the L elbow turn is a CCW movement of the whole upper arm from shoulder to elbow.

But actually, it helps add pressure to #4. When I turn my L elbow (whole upper arm bone actually), my L triceps "presses" into the side of my chest/torso/armpit. So it doesn't interfere with #4, in fact it helps a lot. I actually don't feel PP#4 much when I don't turn the L elbow.

Re #3 release as supination..movement of the forearm/wrist movement...moving the upper arm actually will move the elbow, which in turn moves the forearm, which in turn the wrist...it is just like painting but you are holding the paintbrush at the opposite end...turning the forearm or wrist itself is like holding the paintbrush near the brush...

So, let's ask a painter which one is better?...

[MizunoJoe]

Yeah, the L elbow turn is a CCW movement of the whole upper arm from shoulder to elbow.

But actually, it helps add pressure to #4. When I turn my L elbow (whole upper arm bone actually), my L triceps "presses" into the side of my chest/torso/armpit. So it doesn't interfere with #4, in fact it helps a lot. I actually don't feel PP#4 much when I don't turn the L elbow.

Re #3 release as supination..movement of the forearm/wrist movement...moving the upper arm actually will move the elbow, which in turn moves the forearm, which in turn the wrist...it is just like painting but you are holding the paintbrush at the opposite end...turning the forearm or wrist itself is like holding the paintbrush near the brush...

So, let's ask a painter which one is better?...

What's better is to actually understand release of #3, and neither one of those is correct. The driving right shoulder moves the LFW off plane and the RFW on plane at Impact. The left shoulder, and entire left arm, including the elbow, should be inert. The left wrist can full roll(requires manipulation), half roll(happens naturally - no manipulation required), or unrolled(requires manipulation) , but that's Hinge Action, not #3 release.

[brianid]

What's better is to actually understand release of #3, and neither one of those is correct. The driving right shoulder moves the LFW off plane and the RFW on plane at Impact. The left shoulder, and entire left arm, including the elbow, should be inert. The left wrist can full roll(requires manipulation), half roll(happens naturally - no manipulation required), or unrolled(requires manipulation) , but that's Hinge Action, not #3 release.

Hmmm...I see...so what's the #3 Release? So my intentional roll is actually just manipulation resulting to Full Roll. How do you Release #3 in TGM then? The Throw Out? Just CF?

[BerntR]

The driving right shoulder moves the LFW off plane and the RFW on plane at Impact.

Nitpicking maybe, but the LAW is never on plane. The only way it could have been on plane was if the left shoulder was on plane, something it never is - at least not before impact - except for us lefties

[Mike O]

Nitpicking maybe, but the LFW is never on plane. The only way it could have been on plane was if the left shoulder was on plane, something it never is - at least not before impact - except for us lefties

Bernt,
That's not nitpicky - just identifying a gross error in description - which your notation would help any newbie from becoming confused.

[MizunoJoe]

Hmmm...I see...so what's the #3 Release? So my intentional roll is actually just manipulation resulting to Full Roll. How do you Release #3 in TGM then? The Throw Out? Just CF?

Yes, the driving right shoulder along with tracing the Plane Line with PP#3 rolls the LFW, whether or not you roll the left wrist intentionally. Angled Hinged Swingers also, have Throwout.

[MizunoJoe]

Nitpicking maybe, but the LAW is never on plane. The only way it could have been on plane was if the left shoulder was on plane, something it never is - at least not before impact - except for us lefties

Welcome to Neverland at :55

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=psZpj2ygx00

[MizunoJoe]

Bernt,
That's not nitpicky - just identifying a gross error in description - which your notation would help any newbie from becoming confused.

The gross error in description in this thread is the description of Throwout being the rotation of the left wrist. Interesting that neither of you two non-nitpickers were concerned enough about possible newbie confusion to point it out.