I am also saying that your hands don't move where you try to move them- so it's very likely that he's tried to imagine and feel his hands moving on "his ideal" plane- say turned shoulder- but he is well above it at the top.
I am not "tying" 1) the hands closer to address to 2) any issues of pivot power.
I'm actually thinking that it would be harder to take the hands back flatter with the hands stretched out so far at address (couple of ways to look at that - so I might not have that correct - however as I mentioned - the hands closer to the body at address would allow for a better shoulder alignment and therefore set him up to take it back more on plane i.e. flatter.
All of my comments would apply to swinging or hitting.
However, really a very nice movement- that he's going to continually improve on and get better and better.
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I am also saying that your hands don't move where you try to move them- so it's very likely that he's tried to imagine and feel his hands moving on "his ideal" plane- say turned shoulder- but he is well above it at the top.
I am not "tying" 1) the hands closer to address to 2) any issues of pivot power.
I'm actually thinking that it would be harder to take the hands back flatter with the hands stretched out so far at address (couple of ways to look at that - so I might not have that correct - however as I mentioned - the hands closer to the body at address would allow for a better shoulder alignment and therefore set him up to take it back more on plane i.e. flatter.
All of my comments would apply to swinging or hitting.
However, really a very nice movement- that he's going to continually improve on and get better and better.
Good post hampster weiner . . . . this cat does have a good motion . . . it would be really good if you just pushed his hands in about 1 foot to a foot and a half. Actually he swings on plane pretty good . . . just a really steep one . . . the hands match up pretty good with the left arm parallel to the ground at start down and the right arm parallel to the ground on the thru side.
You still eatin' booger omlets for breakfast? Where you been . . . groupie at 4-H rallies?
Ok, so are you guys saying that a) my hands are off-plane, and in result the club is also off plane (over the turned shoulder plane) or b) that just my hands are off plane?
My hand path has always been out-in during the downswing compared to the plane line, but does that always mean the club is off-plane? I'm not swinging to the left. I think the arched left wrist has a role here: it keeps the club inside while I push my hands outside.
Practice at the range has been so-so. Damn that arched wrist is a bugger. Alot more work to do on that.
Damn that arched wrist is a bugger. Alot more work to do on that.
Lehman and Trevino did alright with one.
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"In my experience, if you stay with the essentials you WILL build a repeatable swing undoubtedly. If you can master the Imperatives you have a champion" (Vikram).
The reason you can't sustain the lag is because you are so eager to make the club move fast (a reaction to the intent of "hitting it far"). So on a full shot you throw it away too early, which doesn't happen for your short chip. (bts)
Ok, so are you guys saying that a) my hands are off-plane, and in result the club is also off plane (over the turned shoulder plane) or b) that just my hands are off plane?
My hand path has always been out-in during the downswing compared to the plane line, but does that always mean the club is off-plane? I'm not swinging to the left. I think the arched left wrist has a role here: it keeps the club inside while I push my hands outside.
Practice at the range has been so-so. Damn that arched wrist is a bugger. Alot more work to do on that.
No I think your hands are ON PLANE . . . BUT the wrong plane. It's too steep. Notice how your hands pretty much match up when your arms are parallel to the ground. You just need to flatten the plane out. I think that will probably "un-arch" you some. I think you probably have that arch deal going so much a) to get the sweetspot on the ball with such a steep shaft b) to slow the rotation of the face down.
Look at the Hogan sequence. See how much more "in" his arms are? Notice how much lower the grip end is compared to yours. His arms and hands are moving WITH his body. Not just out away from him in space.
Try swinging and imagine somebody is directly behind you a holding a stick parallel to the ground and laying right on top of your head. Now swing the club UNDER that stick. And stand closer to the ball and don't get the shaft leaning forward so much at address. That encourages your hands to go UP.
That would be my opinion . . . others I'm sure will be like "yo Bucket is a retard."
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Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 05-10-2008 at 10:12 AM.
Your left hip gets beyond your left knee and foot fairly early on in the downswing (left hip nearer target than left foot - weight transfers too much too left side and not enough rotation of left hip...means tendancy to swing clubhead along line).
Compare with Hogan in the sequence Bucket posted....just after impact his hip is further away from target than his left foot....he has lots of left hip rotation....allows him to swing on plane ( or "swing left" if you want).
My feeling (personal and unproven) is that the pronounced hip slide towards the target that you have ( and me - or I hope used to have) is associated with a reactive early release of acc. 2 (left wrist uncock) so that you have a fairly early release.... I think that this may be due to a reactive balance issue...if you slide your weight to target too early in downswing you automatically throw something in the other direction to retain some sense of balance.
If I feel that I pivot "down" and not towards the target then I get a later release and a greater sense of then pivoting "up" during impact.
If you have Percy Boomer's book then read it again and again...
That is what I think...may be wrong... but seems to make sense to me.... so many early release people have a big hip slide...and vica versa...
When I pivot "down" I slide less, I delay my release more...and I feel the planet earth pushing back up through my feet ...and that feels great!
Your left hip gets beyond your left knee and foot fairly early on in the downswing (left hip nearer target than left foot - weight transfers too much too left side and not enough rotation of left hip...means tendancy to swing clubhead along line).
Compare with Hogan in the sequence Bucket posted....just after impact his hip is further away from target than his left foot....he has lots of left hip rotation....allows him to swing on plane ( or "swing left" if you want).
My feeling (personal and unproven) is that the pronounced hip slide towards the target that you have ( and me - or I hope used to have) is associated with a reactive early release of acc. 2 (left wrist uncock) so that you have a fairly early release.... I think that this may be due to a reactive balance issue...if you slide your weight to target too early in downswing you automatically throw something in the other direction to retain some sense of balance.
If I feel that I pivot "down" and not towards the target then I get a later release and a greater sense of then pivoting "up" during impact.
If you have Percy Boomer's book then read it again and again...
That is what I think...may be wrong... but seems to make sense to me.... so many early release people have a big hip slide...and vica versa...
When I pivot "down" I slide less, I delay my release more...and I feel the planet earth pushing back up through my feet ...and that feels great!
Good post . .. But keep in mind if he didn't have a bunch of hip slide his hands would fly way out over the plane. The steeper the plane you have to slide more. Flatter planes require less slide and more rotation.
Getting the hands more "in" and the plane flatter will make the pivot more rotary by necessity. If he spins his hips on his current steep plane he's WAY OVER THE PLANE. Right now he's on plane just a steep plane.
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