Pardon my density. If I started from fix, as opposed to adjusted what would my right elbow do? I may have botched what you were trying to convey.
At Fix, your Right Elbow is Bent. IMHO, it's bent a fairly good amount. It's bent a little more at Release. So, if you start your Take-away from Fix, then it should Bend more.
Originally Posted by okie
I thought that the fix amount of elbow bend, much like the right wrist degree of bend, is constant from start-up until release. Of course the right wrist bend is not lost like the right elbow bend. Please set me straight!
Set you straight? You're already twenty years ahead of me. Hmm?, Twenty years to figure that out. I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box.
"I think that the fix amount of elbow bend, much like the right wrist degree of bend, is constant from the end of start-up until release. Of course the right wrist bend is not lost like the right elbow bend."
That's why I call it a "rigid Power Package". I'm trying to convey that there is a fixed degree of Elbow Bend during the Backstroke (end of Start-up) and Downstroke. Then, at Release, the Elbow, for a Swinger, is allowed to begin and continue to straighten until both arms are straight.
I can't get confirmation from others, yet in my own swing, it works perfectly by returning the right forearm to the exact Plane it was on at the end of start-up, except now, the Forearm is at Release.
At Fix, your Right Elbow is Bent. IMHO, it's bent a fairly good amount. It's bent a little more at Release. So, if you start your Take-away from Fix, then it should Bend more.
Set you straight? You're already twenty years ahead of me. Hmm?, Twenty years to figure that out. I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box.
"I think that the fix amount of elbow bend, much like the right wrist degree of bend, is constant from the end of start-up until release. Of course the right wrist bend is not lost like the right elbow bend."
That's why I call it a "rigid Power Package". I'm trying to convey that there is a fixed degree of Elbow Bend during the Backstroke (end of Start-up) and Downstroke. Then, at Release, the Elbow, for a Swinger, is allowed to begin and continue to straighten until both arms are straight.
I can't get confirmation from others, yet in my own swing, it works perfectly by returning the right forearm to the exact Plane it was on at the end of start-up, except now, the Forearm is at Release.
Right wrist bend can be "fixed" but elbow bend can not. As a drill let your left arm hang below your shoulder then use your right hand to grab your left wrist. You will notice that your right wrist is bent. Now use your right arm to lift and lower your left arm "back, up, and in" across your chest. You will notice that your right wrist is fixed but your elbow will bend to top then straighten to follow through. This is the "magic of the right forearm".
Freezing the elbow is not advised for full motion shots.
Right wrist bend can be "fixed" but elbow bend can not. As a drill let your left arm hang below your shoulder then use your right hand to grab your left wrist. You will notice that your right wrist is bent. Now use your right arm to lift and lower your left arm "back, up, and in" across your chest. You will notice that your right wrist is fixed but your elbow will bend to top then straighten to follow through. This is the "magic of the right forearm".
Freezing the elbow is not advised for full motion shots.
Master Jeff,
1. Sorry for the Long Vapid post.
2. Glad to hear from you.
I hear you loud and clear. What you describe is exactly what I see from almost anyone who swings a club.
Unfortunately, this causes seemingly endless incongruities. Hang on, I don't want to complicate things, but this is where the roller coaster ride dumps us into the deep end of the Twilight Zone. Affectionately known as Zone #4.
1. If Bending the Right Elbow lifts the Club to the Top, then why does HK write:
Quote:
For Power Package Power, the movement of the Clubhead – via the Lever Assemblies – is assigned to the muscles of the arms, hands and upper torso. Which are –
Biceps – they bend the elbow
Triceps – they straighten the elbow Deltoids – they raise the arms
Pectorals – they pull the shoulders and arms forward
Latissimus Dorsij – they pull the shoulders and arms backard.
2. Extensor Action uses Triceps muscles. Bending the Elbow uses Biceps muscles. I can't push and pull simultaneously. Is it just me?
3. When the Left Arm moves away from the chest, release begins. Doesn't unbending the Right Elbow during the Downstroke force the Left Arm away from the chest?
4. How do you reconcile the fact that Unbending the Right Elbow During the Downstroke, forces the "Point" of the Right Arm Wedge, while tracing the Plane Line, causes the Clubhead to trace a parallel line unless the Unbending Forearm is on the Actual Swing Plane? This took at least a year for me to understand.
5. I've watch Yoda's video demonstrating the Right Forearm being Driven into Release from the Top of the Swing. He fixes the Right Elbow and simply Raises and Lowers his Right Arm with his shoulder Muscles.
I have about a dozen more incongruities just like these but I can't remember them all on short notice.
Such as the Following Quote:
Quote:
. If the Pivot moves the Right Shoulder at the same speed as the Power Package – or Primary Lever Assembly – the Accumulators will not be Released by this action until the Right Elbow can straighten. Even then the Clubhead Lag is still maintained – it has NO Release Point. Establish a “normal” Right Wrist Bend for Release – either frozen at some point, or moving from Maximum to Minimum Bend as the Ball Location is moved away from Low Point and/or the Basic Stroke changes the Elbow location (10-3) – because the Right Wrist Bend, along with Ball Location and Plane Angle determine the precise RIGHT FOREARM ANGLE OF APPROACH (7-3).
So, If the Right Elbow Straightens during the Downstroke, wouldn't the Power Package be moving at a different speed than the Right Shoulder?
Let me leave you with one more. This is one of the most difficult.
If the Right Elbow unbends during the Downstroke, then how does the Right Elbow maintain it's 3 dimensional path, which is required in order for Right Elbow Action to "either powers and/or controls all three elements of Three Dimensional Impact (6-C-0) per 1-L-9." If the Right Elbow moves off plane, it can still power but not control. So what must we do for Right Elbow Action to Power and Control all three elements of Three Dimensional Impact?
Whew, that's a walk down memory lane. Anyway, after struggling with these issues for years, I found that the "Fixed Right Elbow" solves them all.
Right wrist bend can be "fixed" but elbow bend can not. As a drill let your left arm hang below your shoulder then use your right hand to grab your left wrist. You will notice that your right wrist is bent. Now use your right arm to lift and lower your left arm "back, up, and in" across your chest. You will notice that your right wrist is fixed but your elbow will bend to top then straighten to follow through. This is the "magic of the right forearm".
Freezing the elbow is not advised for full motion shots.
See what I mean? No Confirmation. 20 years down the drain if I'm wrong.
Quote:
6-K-0 PIVOT STROKE DELIVERY In a “Pivot Stroke” the Power Package is held in a fixed relationship with the Body Turn and no independent Arm motion occurs until – or unless – the requirements of the selected Pivot are met. Then Arm Motion, independently or not, Continues Delivery per 10-19 until the selected Trigger occurs (10-20).
6-K-0 PIVOT STROKE DELIVERY In a “Pivot Stroke” the Power Package is held in a fixed relationship with the Body Turn and no independent Arm motion occurs until – or unless – the requirements of the selected Pivot are met. Then Arm Motion, independently or not, Continues Delivery per 10-19 until the selected Trigger occurs (10-20).
This relates to Delivery only. To unbend the Right Arm would be to Release. Power is Accumulated, Stored, Delivered and then Released. Full power requiring a delayed Release and hence a Delivery of the Stored Power without any premature firing, right Arm Straightening.
This relates to Delivery only. To unbend the Right Arm would be to Release. Power is Accumulated, Stored, Delivered and then Released. Full power requiring a delayed Release and hence a Delivery of the Stored Power without any premature firing, right Arm Straightening.
Power is accumulated, then stored during the Downstroke, then released.
That's what Okie and I are saying. The Right Elbow doesn't unbend until release. During Sections 9-2-5 through 9-2-8, the Right Elbow is Fixed. Fixed Right Elbow (Okie), Rigid Power Package (Daryl) same thing.
I know I'm saying it wrong? It should be called "Power Package" but everyone is so used to thinking that the Right Elbow Bends during the Backstroke Section of the Swing and Straightens during the Downstroke Section of the Swing, I renamed it "Rigid Power Package" to mean a Power Package with a Fixed Elbow.
Okie is the only other person I found who would confirm this. (I feel like sending him a gift) (7,200 members, and it's just me and Okie)
I really hate to say this but I think I just uncovered the Problem. I use a Right Forearm Take-Away. I don't use a shoulder turn take-away like most of you guys. So, for me, the Elbow stops Bending at the end of Start-up and my Arms and Shoulders Rotate together to the Top of the Backstroke. Most of you guys use a shoulder turn take-away. You do a Shoulder Take-away and need to bend your right elbow during the backstroke to allow your left arm to cross your chest at the Top (ala Tiger Woods). So, for you guys, it must sound crazy not to bend your right elbow during the Backstroke. Duh. AND, as it goes up, it comes down.
So, for me, the Elbow stops Bending at the end of Start-up and my Arms and Shoulders Rotate together to the Top of the Backstroke. Most of you guys use a shoulder turn take-away and then bend your right arm to bring your arms to the top AFTER your shoulder stop turning (ala Tiger Woods). So, for you guys, it must sound crazy not to bend your right elbow during the Backstroke. Duh. AND, as it goes up, it comes down.
How do you know what most of us do? Or are you "assume" ing again.
It sounds like you RFT to a point and then rely on your Pivot to Pivot to Hands your way to Top. How do your ensure you arrive at Top on a TSP angle with such a sensory blacked out procedure?
I know Im being an ass here, perhaps Im still mad about that Canadian mini putt crack. That was a low blow, D. Low, very low. Lowest of the low.
Right wrist bend can be "fixed" but elbow bend can not. As a drill let your left arm hang below your shoulder then use your right hand to grab your left wrist. You will notice that your right wrist is bent. Now use your right arm to lift and lower your left arm "back, up, and in" across your chest. You will notice that your right wrist is fixed but your elbow will bend to top then straighten to follow through. This is the "magic of the right forearm".
Freezing the elbow is not advised for full motion shots.
Jeff Hull's explanation of this simple drill ranks as one of the great posts -- defined as one that can help you take your ball striking to the next level NOW -- ever posted on this site. It is the essence of Zone #2 Power.
Your Body (Zone #1 Pivot with its Head Center) must be trained to accommodate this motion, and that is far easier than most imagine. See posts #1 and #4 here: http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/thread4435.html. Be sure to click on the drawings for the enlargement and explanation. Here we owe a posthumous debt of gratitude to Bob MacDonald and his magnificent work, Golf, published in 1927.
Get in touch with this action . . . and get ready to rumble!
Right wrist bend can be "fixed" but elbow bend can not. As a drill let your left arm hang below your shoulder then use your right hand to grab your left wrist. You will notice that your right wrist is bent. Now use your right arm to lift and lower your left arm "back, up, and in" across your chest. You will notice that your right wrist is fixed but your elbow will bend to top then straighten to follow through. This is the "magic of the right forearm".
Freezing the elbow is not advised for full motion shots.
I agree with the above drill as the "Proper" Start-up procedure and along with Extensor Action it controls the exact amount of Right Elbow Bend needed throughout the Backstroke AND the precise amount of Right Shoulder travel and direction. This is not a shoulder turn takeaway. This drill is uniquely TGM. This describes the Right Forearm Takeaway. It's taught to so many, yet so few adopt the method during actual play. But why Unbend the Right Elbow during the Downstroke?
Extensor Action controls the Right Elbow Path and it's subsequent location at Release. It ensures that the selected Elbow Alignment at the Top of the Swing is maintained during the Downstroke for Release and that both the #3 Pressure Point and Clubhead simultaneously trace the Plane Line during the Downstroke.
For a Swinger, the Uncocking Left Wrist straightens the Right Elbow. For a Hitter, Right Triceps Thrust will Uncock the Left Wrist as the Right Elbow Straightens.
If we Straighten the Right Elbow during the Downstroke, how are we ever to have the Right Shoulder Travel the same Speed as the Power Package?
Quote:
7-1 GRIPS – BASIC Basic Grip is the term indicating the mere act of holding on to the Club and relates primarily to the proximity of the Hands. They simply are either close enough to overlap or they are not close enough to overlap. So all non-overlapping Grips are Baseball Grips.
The Grips of Hitters and Swingers must differ in tightness. But still per 1-L-3, 6-B-3-0-1, 7-3 and 10-6-B. For the Swinger, Centrifugal Force Uncocks BOTH the Left Wrist and the Right Elbow per 7-19 and 7-20. So both must remain “Passive” but never “Whippy.” For the Hitter, the Right Triceps become “Active” and execute both Uncocking motions with a firmness that approaches the mandatory rigidity of the Right Wrist. With both procedures, the Flying Wedges’ alignments, as always, never waver. Grip types other than the Strong Single Action (10-2-B) either destroy the Wedges or produce inferior deviations. Also study 3-F-6. The prestressed (bent) Clubshaft (10-19-A) and maximum Swing Radius (10-19-C) are resistances to Impact Decelerations that each must establish before – not during – Impact (2-M-1).
So, for a Hitter, the decision as to "When" or "Where" the Right Elbow Uncocks, is made by the Golfer per Stroke Pattern.
Hmm?, Twenty years to figure that out. I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box. 
Hybrid Mode
