Stack & Tilt, 5 Simple Key and Tilt, Extension and Rotation

[MizunoJoe]

The real problem with that photo is that it will cause a student to over accelerate the hands instead of getting the passive hands ahead of the club head at impact by using the pivot only.

[svsvincenzo]

That isn't what they tought me... and I guarantee its not what they tought him and its not in the book except as malfunction. Either way u shoild take it down its a real eyesore and does not represent the golfing machine very well people see a big picture like that and get carried away thinking that's what homer told us to do

So what did Homer say about that (wedge alignments especially the R flying wedge)?

[svsvincenzo]

The real problem with that photo is that it will cause a student to over accelerate the hands instead of getting the passive hands ahead of the club head at impact by using the pivot only.

I see you're an advocate of pure swinging, pure pivot...and from other forums you're a Hoganite......so my question is, why and how do you think Hogan used his so-called 3 R hands? I went the direction of believing he said the truth about his feels, so I researched the way where I can use the pivot as he said (hips starting) and not stall the pivot when come time for PA1/3 R hands...and I think it's achieving the reverse-k position on top that's key to this. No way we can stall the pivot even with PA1 use for as long as we keep the head super still from the top to impact. No way. At least if your clubhead isn't under plane and on its way to gouge the ground.

[Daryti]

Hip starting on the downstroke:

A lot has been talking about the first move is the hip slide. If the hip goes too fast with the arm of clubhead not able to catch up, it will cause mishit most likely to the right.

With the driver, I feel the right forearm start down together with the hip automatically slide forward. It is the feel but actually is the right shoulder comes down first then forearm straighten slightly, then rotation ... So which has the control on the downstroke? Forearm, #3? It shouldn't be the hip eventhough it is the first move?

[svsvincenzo]

Why not the hips? It automatically flattens the plane, which starts the arm shoulder and elbow and hands down properly with the shaft shallowing and sweetspot opening. If we make the BS steep enough, when the plane flattens due to the hips firing, everything's gonna be on plane.

Arms getting behind wouldn't even be an issue, in fact it would be desired as it gives PA4/pivot longer interval to release, which means more clubhead speed at impact.

[MizunoJoe]

I see you're an advocate of pure swinging, pure pivot...and from other forums you're a Hoganite......so my question is, why and how do you think Hogan used his so-called 3 R hands? I went the direction of believing he said the truth about his feels, so I researched the way where I can use the pivot as he said (hips starting) and not stall the pivot when come time for PA1/3 R hands...and I think it's achieving the reverse-k position on top that's key to this. No way we can stall the pivot even with PA1 use for as long as we keep the head super still from the top to impact. No way. At least if your clubhead isn't under plane and on its way to gouge the ground.

Hogan had an active left shoulder - he whirls through impact with the right elbow bent and parked on his right hip at release. The pivot uncocks the LW, not right arm extension nor a throwing motion with the right forearm. The right shoulder straightens the right arm in the follow through, which felt like a throwing motion to him. As you can clearly see here:

[svsvincenzo]

Hogan had an active left shoulder - he whirls through impact with the right elbow bent and parked on his right hip at release. The pivot uncocks the LW, not right arm extension nor a throwing motion with the right forearm. The right shoulder straightens the right arm in the follow through, which felt like a throwing motion to him. As you can clearly see here:

Respectfully disagree with that. IMO Hogan uses his R arm, but not like TGM R arm thrust, but like throwing a baseball half underarm half sidearm just like he said. More like R pec curl type of motion, instead of R triceps push.

Reason IMO Hogan's R arm/elbow is so bent is because he has no L pec muscle at all plus he stretches that L arm towards nearer his R shoulder in BS until Startdown. (Is that an EA R arm push or pull?) Then he starts rotates/pivots at Startdown, then 3 R hands once he's on elbow plane.

Remember the golf swing DS is very fast, if you sequence it like pivot and R arm throw, it will look exactly like Hogan's bent R elbow if you have no L pec mass at all like him.

[MizunoJoe]

IMO Hogan uses his R arm, but not like TGM R arm thrust, but like throwing a baseball half underarm half sidearm just like he said. More like R pec curl type of motion, instead of R triceps push.

Then why does the right hand not move away from the right shoulder? The right shoulder and right hand are moving in unison, and that doesn't happen in a throwing motion. I.e., if he were throwing at release, his hands would outrun the right shoulder. In MORAD terminology, it's a cp swing. Think of a hammer thrower - he pulls his hands inward against the pull of the weight on the chain and he's still pulling when he lets go. He can't throw because of the chain.

[svsvincenzo]

Then why does the right hand not move away from the right shoulder? The right shoulder and right hand are moving in unison, and that doesn't happen in a throwing motion. I.e., if he were throwing at release, his hands would outrun the right shoulder. In MORAD terminology, it's a cp swing. Think of a hammer thrower - he pulls his hands inward against the pull of the weight on the chain and he's still pulling when he lets go. He can't throw because of the chain.

Because he is already rotating hard. If you throw ONLY, yeah the R elbow would straighten. But remember he tried to fire hose hips at Startdown, which really cranked up the rotation, and his L side extension allows that rotation to get even faster. Pure PA4. Then at Release/hands hip height, he starts thinking fire that R arm in sidearm/undermine throwing manner.

IMO, the more of what he did in BS, the RFT, the longer the R elbow would be bent and closer to the R hip.

Remember this is a very fast motion. The R elbow suddenly straighten starting visually right at Rekease/shaft parallel in DS. From thereon it straightens slowly as the DS is very fast. His R arm and R wrist is very very straight in followthru. Note also that his shoulders don't turn/rotate as much in finish like Immelman for example and Tiger circa 2000. So I'd say it's more PA1 for Hogan from shaft parallel, but he's also still rotating due to the earlier hip turn crank.

[svsvincenzo]

Btw...this is IMO why HK prefers 4-1-2-3.