But when you analyze the photos and videos, you can't draw the feel line. That has been the point I have been trying to address cause what is being said is it is the sweetspot plane angle, sweet spot plane line and that dog just doesn't hunt.
I have not issue stating you monitor and FEEL the sweetspot line, but that is not the actual path of the golf club.
Hmmmm.....
Hang on. We got a guy overboard here (me).
This is a great thread, and one that has smoke coming from my ears.
But...
Personally, I feel that impact planeline and lowpoint planeline are different animals. Both nocturnal, yes, but different.
And I am seeing in 2-C (dual horizontal) two different planelines that will not produce the same results. Because the clubhead passes through both doesnt mean, to me, that either planeline can be used.
Hmmmm.....
Hang on. We got a guy overboard here (me).
This is a great thread, and one that has smoke coming from my ears.
But...
Personally, I feel that impact planeline and lowpoint planeline are different animals. Both nocturnal, yes, but different.
And I am seeing in 2-C (dual horizontal) two different planelines that will not produce the same results. Because the clubhead passes through both doesnt mean, to me, that either planeline can be used.
Can anyone clear it up for me?
Thanks.
Best I can answer is that they are both on the SAME Plane, the sweetspot plane as shown in 2-C-1 #1.
Maybe this will help. When seeing both of these represented as lines on the ground you would see the Impact Plane Line inside the target line (between the ball and feet). The Low Point plane line would be on the target line. There is a difference between (space) them base on the distance the ball is from the low point. (can't locate reference, call it old age).
Hinging not withstanding both will always be on the plane, this is not the incline plane that the clubshaft is on, but the sweetspot plane.
The Lob shot would I believe require a different description but for standard strokes it is accurate.
Best I can answer is that they are both on the SAME Plane, the sweetspot plane as shown in 2-C-1 #1.
Check it out. 2-C-1 #1 shows inclined plane, sweetspot plane (twice) and clubshaft plane - but not lowpoint plane.
Originally Posted by Martee
Maybe this will help. When seeing both of these represented as lines on the ground you would see the Impact Plane Line inside the target line (between the ball and feet). The Low Point plane line would be on the target line. There is a difference between (space) them base on the distance the ball is from the low point. (can't locate reference, call it old age).
Keep in mind, the clubhead moves down/out/forward...
So...for any given point (in this case, impact), the clubhead continues downward to lowpoint (lowpoint planeline)...hence...I cant see how one could trace either and get the same result.
Originally Posted by Martee
Hinging not withstanding both will always be on the plane, this is not the incline plane that the clubshaft is on, but the sweetspot plane.
They seem to me to be only on the 'plane' (term used loosely) of the angle of approach of the clubhead...but not on the same planeline in relation to the clubshaft plane. In otherwards, they dont seem to me to lie on the same plane on the ground. Again - down/out/forward.
Was making me crazy for a bit over here....seemed like it was too much for me to read when I'm all tired...
So.....if you trace with the Clubshaft (i.e. keep the clubshaft pointing at the Plane Line)....TECHNICALLY, you'll hit it off the hosel....technically....
So either you trace just inside the Plane Line with it (the clubshaft)......or you trace with the (invisible, completely feel-based) Sweetspot Plane (if you connect a line between PP#3 [I assume it's PP#3] and the sweetspot of the clubface).
When reading 2-C-1#1 remember that the Impact interval has been extended to Low Point (Homer has this statement in the first paragraph). Does that clear things up?
How you can trace either the impact line or the low point line since the ball could be located at low point, thus no difference in line.
The Impact Plane Line and the Low Point Plane line reside on the same plane as shown in 2-C-1#1. The Low Point line is further down the sweet spot plane (lower) thus it presents a 2nd line outside the impact line when represented on the ground.
I probably haven't explained this very well, but if you look at 2-C-1#1 and keep in mind the extended impact interval to Low Point, it should clear it up (I hope).
Was making me crazy for a bit over here....seemed like it was too much for me to read when I'm all tired...
So.....if you trace with the Clubshaft (i.e. keep the clubshaft pointing at the Plane Line)....TECHNICALLY, you'll hit it off the hosel....technically....
So either you trace just inside the Plane Line with it (the clubshaft)......or you trace with the (invisible, completely feel-based) Sweetspot Plane (if you connect a line between PP#3 [I assume it's PP#3] and the sweetspot of the clubface).
I get it.
TECHNICALLY NO... The plane line is defined as the base line at the Inclined Plane (where bottom of the plane where it comes into contact with the ground). Look at 10-5 pictures, the lines and the clubhead. If you hit the ball off the hosel by tracing the Plane Line, then you have a bent Plane Line.
Your feel description has merit IMO for BUT if you were to draw lines on photo or vid to analyze the golf swing, this won't fly.
There have been several threads over the past year regarding exercises and drills as well as what Homer wrote regarding how to test for being On Plane. In the latter, Homer using the Club Shaft as well as he did with his plane board and descriptions of the clubshaft against the plane. All of this is the clubshaft plane defined at Impact. The exercises were what really tossed me for a loop. Clearly Yoda taking the Dowel and spear fishing from the top showing the deliver line, or Chuck with his golf ball thrown at the ball. It does show the concept but incorrectly. It should not hit the ball but hit to the inside of the ball as what they are demonstrating is the travel of the golf shaft to the plane line, the club face sit to the outside of the club shaft. They demonstrated a bent plane line and if the club was deliver as such, it would have in fact been a hosel hit.
My understanding does confirm Homer's points. The descriptions and instruction being given if applied to analysis is incorrect. This is Feel vs Mechanics, analysisis mechanics.
Sorry for the rambling length, but blind acceptance or misunderstnading is something that just didn't fly with me on this topic.
When reading 2-C-1#1 remember that the Impact interval has been extended to Low Point (Homer has this statement in the first paragraph). Does that clear things up?
Great catch Martee - I never even looked at the paragraph.
Originally Posted by Martee
How you can trace either the impact line or the low point line since the ball could be located at low point, thus no difference in line.
Yes, but only in that instance, no?
Originally Posted by Martee
The Impact Plane Line and the Low Point Plane line reside on the same plane as shown in 2-C-1#1. The Low Point line is further down the sweet spot plane (lower) thus it presents a 2nd line outside the impact line when represented on the ground.
Agreed - which is kinda my point.
Originally Posted by Martee
I probably haven't explained this very well, but if you look at 2-C-1#1 and keep in mind the extended impact interval to Low Point, it should clear it up (I hope).
No sir - your explanation is much more thought out then mine...
Let me see if I cant get my thoughts better organized and more concise. While I agree, both impact and low point are located on the same plane, my contention is, from a players perspective, one cannot trace both and get the same result.
Give me a day or so and let me see if I can articulate this better.
While I agree, both impact and low point are located on the same plane, my contention is, from a players perspective, one cannot trace both and get the same result.
Give me a day or so and let me see if I can articulate this better.
Yes, no need, I see your point already
Basically, even though the Low Point Plane Line is located on the same Inclined Plane as the Impact Point Plane Line (the one we usually Trace), from the player's perspective, that Low Point Plane Line looks like the Impact Plane Line, hence we have a devastatingly bent Plane Line. The way to break through this illusion is to realise that you are Tracing a line which is under the ground. But why go through all this effort I wonder. Just use the basic Plane Line.
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