During my three day school, Tomasello made references to Homer looking down. While teaching me the magic of the right forearm.....Tommy made the comment, I know Homer's looking down and saying, yes, it can be that easy.
I figure if Homer was looking down in 1993, I'm pretty they're both looking down now in between golf shots and getting a kick out of all this non-sense surounding the little yellow book.
DG
Pretty creepy bringing up TT and HK that way. Dude- tell a pill.
Here are a few things Homer wrote about the Pivot, Lag and stroke sequence. It differs from some beliefs posted above by others- I guess I just misinterpret again.
8. Hip Slide starts the down swing. (from a stroke sequence list)
Keep your body ahead of your hands and your hands ahead of the club. (that is one leading the other the right order.)
Educated Hands are those that can feel the resistance of motion --
CLUBHEAD lag. (that happens when fully loaded- Pivot and Accumulator Lag)
5. Improve one step at a time, start with the pivot. (that important, it is , yes)
Hula Hula - This flexibility allows the right forearm to remain on
plane and keeps the shoulder motion and hip motion independent. Keep these (2) separate. (not what DG reports and see SEC- it allows the right forearm magic to remain on plane- that is what the Man said- no me)
A sharp Backstroke Turn, a Downstroke Hip Slide only, (before the Arm Motion begins) encourages "On Plane" Pivot alignments.
So its - Turn, Slide, Swing. (lets see- a RFT, then a DS Hip Slide BEFORE Arm Motion begins to encourage ON PLANE Pivot alignments- Geez that Homer was a rebel. DG says no way. )
Careful:
Aiming Point - At the Top of the Backstroke - even at the End -
mentally construct a line from the Hands to the Aiming Point. Let a
careful Downstroke Pivot move the Hands precisely along this line
they will "feel" as though they remain at the top of the Stroke. Don't question that Feel - just sustain (monitor) it, all ready for Release at the preselected Release Point. Drive the Hands (Clubhead Feel) "down the line" until both arms are straight, NO QUITTING! This procedure merely utilizes a long used method for drawing freehand straight lines between two points. Using the Clubshaft as the pencil is an effective equivalent.
(Holy Fudge- Downstroke Pivot moves the Hands- WTF is Homer doing here. Okay it is a well trained and fairly careful Downstroke Pivot but move the Hands?? And they will ‘feel’ like they remained at the top- question not- just sustain and monitor the “it” and get ready for release and then drive the Hands in a down the line until both are straight? Homer, what are you saying? That the Hands are clamps before release?)
Pretty creepy bringing up TT and HK that way. Dude- tell a pill.
Here are a few things Homer wrote about the Pivot, Lag and stroke sequence. It differs from some beliefs posted above by others- I guess I just misinterpret again.
8. Hip Slide starts the down swing. (from a stroke sequence list)
Keep your body ahead of your hands and your hands ahead of the club. (that is one leading the other the right order.)
Educated Hands are those that can feel the resistance of motion --
CLUBHEAD lag. (that happens when fully loaded- Pivot and Accumulator Lag)
5. Improve one step at a time, start with the pivot. (that important, it is , yes)
Hula Hula - This flexibility allows the right forearm to remain on
plane and keeps the shoulder motion and hip motion independent. Keep these (2) separate. (not what DG reports and see SEC- it allows the right forearm magic to remain on plane- that is what the Man said- no me)
A sharp Backstroke Turn, a Downstroke Hip Slide only, (before the Arm Motion begins) encourages "On Plane" Pivot alignments.
So its - Turn, Slide, Swing. (lets see- a RFT, then a DS Hip Slide BEFORE Arm Motion begins to encourage ON PLANE Pivot alignments- Geez that Homer was a rebel. DG says no way. )
Careful:
Aiming Point - At the Top of the Backstroke - even at the End -
mentally construct a line from the Hands to the Aiming Point. Let a
careful Downstroke Pivot move the Hands precisely along this line
they will "feel" as though they remain at the top of the Stroke. Don't question that Feel - just sustain (monitor) it, all ready for Release at the preselected Release Point. Drive the Hands (Clubhead Feel) "down the line" until both arms are straight, NO QUITTING! This procedure merely utilizes a long used method for drawing freehand straight lines between two points. Using the Clubshaft as the pencil is an effective equivalent.
(Holy Fudge- Downstroke Pivot moves the Hands- WTF is Homer doing here. Okay it is a well trained and fairly careful Downstroke Pivot but move the Hands?? And they will ‘feel’ like they remained at the top- question not- just sustain and monitor the “it” and get ready for release and then drive the Hands in a down the line until both are straight? Homer, what are you saying? That the Hands are clamps before release?)
But Homer is all wrong, right?
You use Homer notes....I'll use the 7th edition. One big question, why don't those comments appear in the 7th edition. Geezzzz, I wonder why? Could they really be Homer's notes? In a pure sense of course....
DG
Last edited by Delaware Golf : 05-30-2007 at 11:38 PM.
First let me say that I’m out of your Magic Kingdom. It was very self-centered to say Homer and Tom would be so disgusted at this. What I cheap shot taken in VAIN. Lynn- remember him- said that Homer loved questions. Question are earthquakes to you, Dg.
Second- those notes came from audio tapes of Master Classes taught by Homer. This is what Homer taught to his students. The 7th Edition- in my opinion - was not written entirely by Homer Kelley. Joe Daniels should have put his name on the book with Kelley’s.
I’m told 7-3 removed the word Magic- if the edition is so dear- drop the term.
One day you will might stop hiding behind Tom Tomesello.
First let me say that I’m out of your Magic Kingdom. It was very self-centered to say Homer and Tom would be so disgusted at this. What I cheap shot taken in VAIN. Lynn- remember him- said that Homer loved questions. Question are earthquakes to you, Dg.
Second- those notes came from audio tapes of Master Classes taught by Homer. This is what Homer taught to his students. The 7th Edition- in my opinion - was not written entirely by Homer Kelley. Joe Daniels should have put his name on the book with Kelley’s.
I’m told 7-3 removed the word Magic- if the edition is so dear- drop the term.
One day you will might stop hiding behind Tom Tomesello.
Bottom line. You study with Lynn....I'll study what Tomasello taught me (the most efficient centrifugal force golf swing). Then maybe one day will meet up on the golf course and see who really kicks butt. As they say, the proof is in the pudding.
"I'm told 7-3 removed the word Magic" what are you trying to say there???
DG
Last edited by Delaware Golf : 05-31-2007 at 12:05 AM.
Bottom line. You study with Lynn....I'll study what Tomasello taught me (the most efficient centrifugal force golf swing). Then maybe one day will meet up on the golf course and see who really kicks butt. As they say, the proof is in the pudding.
"I'm told 7-3 removed the word Magic" what are you trying to say there???
DG
I've been getting Pm's because few want to get involved with this thread for the umpth time. Me- I'm a just a jerk for responding to you.
Now I have to give someone by new sticks for this post but I have to know- all those Championships you tell us you won- what were they? And when are you defending them- I'd like to "watch you make a score" (to quote Homer from a master Class- not ever written in any edition). I surely can't compete against someone with your skills but heck- I can watch. Let me know.
Yes- Lynn has explained a lot of things for many. Maybe me, the least. But this is his forum. And I won't diss TT if he had one.
As for the Magic remark- as I said, I don't own the 7th- the book of Daniels. I was given bad information by those that PM'ed me. I should have known better.
You miss the point about Hula Hula- the hips move without the shoulders moving. If the shoulders don’t move – How can the hands be moved by them? They can’t. HULA HULA only moves the hips - nothing else. Please get that point correct. Independent movement from shoulders. Let the Hands grip the club at this point.
I spoke of PIVIOT LAG - I didn't talk about Clubhead Lag. You load Accumulator Lag on the backstroke. Crank start the Downstroke by loading Pivot Lag – at least according to Homer Kelley. Only now can Clubhead Lag PRESSURE be obtained. You don’t order it, you don’t think it. You load it. You load that Clubhead Lag PRESSURE (different from hands ahead of clubhead alignment which most the world only sees as Lag) only by loading your Accumulators and Pivot Lag. And Lag Pressure is inert- you don’t let the hands move it. Accumulators move them to prevent throw-away
The Pivot Lag is the crank of the “gear train”, the explosion of the launching pad. It is part of Educated Hands. Educate them. Get away from a pivot control take-away (shoulder turn and standard hip action) and use a Right Forearm Take-away. Remember the Magic? The gear train sequentially drags its preceding Component. And you say this is pivot control? Homer was wrong I guess. Once the Hands are Educated- they are Clamps with sensors.
I find that many are afraid to pivot because of the Hands control the Pivot axiom fearing that they are now pivot control- baloney. If you don’t pivot, throw darts.
One last point you don't see- the hip action doesn't move the hands off the incline plane. Hula Hula doesn't create a hip/Hand relationship. I'm afraid you misunderstood the word -lead. Lead in this context only means “ahead of- or comes before.” It does not mean steer or bring in a line.
You underestimate your Hands.
In swinging, lag pressure is initially obtained by "throwing" the Club against the Lag Pressure point at the top for drag loading (or with start down motion for Float Loading). I don't think initial club head lag, or the club head's resistance to motion, is established "only by loading accumulators and pivot lag" Just hold a club up, the hands can feel the dead weight of the club head. Just because something is inert does not mean you don't move it. You move it or direct it at the plane line via the hands (always both aiming and thrust).
Hip action that is not guided by the hands most certainly may move the hands off plane (too little or too much slide). Certainly, you can train the pivot to be nearly correct all the time - but why in the world take the chance? Get the correct pivot all the time by moving the hands, and letting the pivot respond. (note immediate response of the pivot that can indeed produce delayed hip action). I'm not picturing a movement of the hands, then a while later, movement of the hips - the action is an immediate response by the pivot.
5-0 "The hands are the 'Command Post' for all feel processing. As the stroke proceeds they dictate to the Feet as certainly as they dictate to the club "(meaning all other aspects of the stroke). Hands dictate, if the hands dictate, all other aspects can only respond.
SEC- Lag pressure is obtain three different ways- all the result of LOADING the Accumultors at the top and/or the Pivot at the start down sequence. Load and Drag. Feeling the dead weight of the club is useless if it can resist movement (like dragging baby brother) and stressed.
When Homer says to:
Start the down swing with a Hip Slide, before the Arm Motion begins to remain On Plane.
Keep your body ahead of your hands and your hands ahead of the club,
Educated the Hands to feel the resistance of motion,
Keep seperate the motion of the shoulders and the hips (Hula Hula) to allow the right forearm to remain on plane.
"Crepes Suzette!"- I'll stay with Mr. Kelley.
btw way- my pivot responses perfectly to my hands. At Start Down- like Pavlos dogs- they respond. They never let the hands move off plane with the first move. The Hands would not like that.
I find that many are afraid to pivot because of the Hands control the Pivot axiom fearing that they are now pivot control- baloney. If you don’t pivot, throw darts.
.
Tell the masses not to be afraid. The most certain, most perfect cure for the fear is in the Golfing Machine. Practice and maintain perfect hand relationship to the plane line, and you'll have a perfect pivot.
-The Primary Downward Force Vector is produced by straightening the right elbow---
-Bending and Straightening the Right Elbow will RAISE AND LOWER the Left Arm and/or COCK AND UNCOCK the Left Wrist without Bending, Flattening, or Cocking the Right Wrist.
The way TOMASELLO TAUGHT ME...right out of the book.
Tommy had the 7th edition when I studied with him in 1993. It's stated in my notes from my three day school.
DG
Last edited by Delaware Golf : 05-31-2007 at 07:57 AM.
Is clubhead lag pressure obtained from bending the right elbow? cocking the wrist? maintaining the left arm club shaft agle? loading number 4? Couldn't you load all four and still not obtain club head lag pressure?
I'm not positive, but I think club head lag pressure is obtained by the hands feeling the dead weight of the clubhead.
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