The Dividing Line...

[YodasLuke]

Here is one- although there are more:
Brachioradialis is a muscle of the forearm that acts to flex the forearm at the elbow. It is also capable of both pronation and supination, depending on the position of the forearm. It is attached to the distal styloid process of the radius by way of the brachioradialis tendon, and to the lateral supracondylar ridge of the humerus.

Mike O,

Please take the following with the largest grain of salt that you can find, as I am not the expert in this department.

It's my understanding that the brachioradialis aids only in flexion, not extension.

There are two muscles, the extensor digitorum and the extensor carpi ulnaris, that aid in the extending of the elbow. The extension of the elbow by these two muscles appears only to come after extension of the fingers and/or the wrist. At best, I think these muscles are subordinate to the actions of the triceps brachii and the anconeus.

Discounting the roles of the triceps brachii and the anconeus in the extending of the elbow requires intoxication.

[YodasLuke]

Ted,

That fact is coming from a GSED who studied with the man personally. Did you study with Homer directly?

DG

I've studied with Lynn, who is one of the smartest men that ever studied with Homer. And, in my opinion and of all the G.S.E.D.'s I've met, he's the purest version of TGM.

Unless you're as sharp as a bowling ball, you got the jab.

[drewitgolf]

Mike O,

Please take the following with the largest grain of salt that you can find, as I am not the expert in this department.

It's my understanding that the brachioradialis aids only in flexion, not extension.

There are two muscles, the extensor digitorum and the extensor carpi ulnaris, that aid in the extending of the elbow. The extension of the elbow by these two muscles appears only to come after extension of the fingers and/or the wrist. At best, I think these muscles are subordinate to the actions of the triceps brachii and the anconeus.

Discounting the roles of the triceps brachii and the anconeus in the extending of the elbow requires intoxication.

I once heard Bucket say the same thing.

[YodasLuke]

I once heard Bucket say the same thing.

Now that's funny!!

[Mike O]

Mike O,

Please take the following with the largest grain of salt that you can find, as I am not the expert in this department.

It's my understanding that the brachioradialis aids only in flexion, not extension.

There are two muscles, the extensor digitorum and the extensor carpi ulnaris, that aid in the extending of the elbow. The extension of the elbow by these two muscles appears only to come after extension of the fingers and/or the wrist. At best, I think these muscles are subordinate to the actions of the triceps brachii and the anconeus.

Discounting the roles of the triceps brachii and the anconeus in the extending of the elbow requires intoxication.

Ted,
I was only addressing the middle portion of Jeff's post:
"Forerarm muscles can only perform the following anatomical actions-:

1) Flex, extend, abduct or adduct the fingers and thumb.
2) Palmarflex or dorsiflex the wrist.
3) Radially deviate or ulnarly deviate the wrist.
4) Pronate or supinate the hand.

Forearm muscles cannot flex or extend the elbow joint because they are distal (peripheral) to the elbow joint.

Jeff."

Hopefully, that makes my post more relevant. The point is that some "forearm" muscles are able to flex the forearm and some forearm muscles are able to extend the forearm. Those are the muscles that cross the elbow joint. I wasn't posting to the degree of relevance or Bucket's drinking habits, all I was pointing out since Jeff asked was that his limited definition was not correct. Not all forearm muscles have tendon attachments that are distal to the elbow joint, as you correctly pointed out in your post with the addition of some extensor forearm muscles.

[Augusta Golf]

Please don't start with the knee bone connected to the thigh bone song.

[Delaware Golf]

Ted,
I was only addressing the middle portion of Jeff's post:
"Forerarm muscles can only perform the following anatomical actions-:

1) Flex, extend, abduct or adduct the fingers and thumb.
2) Palmarflex or dorsiflex the wrist.
3) Radially deviate or ulnarly deviate the wrist.
4) Pronate or supinate the hand.

Forearm muscles cannot flex or extend the elbow joint because they are distal (peripheral) to the elbow joint.

Jeff."

Hopefully, that makes my post more relevant.

Mike,

Then tell us why would Homer write...."and the Right Forearm is ALWAYS DRIVING." And why would Tomasello say "DRIVE that right forearm to a long right arm" while demonstrating the swinging procedure.

DG

[Mike O]

Mike,

Then tell us why would Homer write...."and the Right Forearm is ALWAYS DRIVING." And why would Tomasello say "DRIVE that right forearm to a long right arm" while demonstrating the swinging procedure.

DG

Dave,
I'm not interested in getting involved in this debate, discussion - I was only commenting on a very narrow topic area within one of Jeff's post- with no intent to have it reflect on any wider issue- pro or con.

If we were to interpret my post- if anything - I would think it would lean more in the direction of supporting your "apparent" viewpoint than it would the "oppositions" - so I am perplexed at the nature of your question to me.

Part of the problem that I see with this thread or posts to this thread is one of communication. Specifically, when you are describing movement let's assume you need to define 1) What the intent is, 2) What muscles are being used, 3) What sensations you are sensing while the movement is being made, 4) What it looks like through the video camera, 5) Where your focus or awareness is while making the movement, 6) etc. - these are all very different for the same movement.

For example, If I decide to Drive my hand/fist through Buckets skull- that doesn't mean that I'm using the fist muscles to do it- that just describes my intent. The muscles that create that motion of the hand might simply be the tricep muscle but of course that would not cause much damage so I'd probably use muscles throughout my body - some for movement, some for support of movement, etc. etc. On to what sensation I might be aware of while I was making the movement - Would that be my hand? no, you'd have greater sensations other places (Bucket can elaborate on this further). Would I individually feel every single muscle that is contracting-No, although they are.

In summary, it's important to understand the context in which you are looking at the movement. For example, in case someone were to read your question and assume that both your quotes were saying the same thing- certainly they are not in this regard : The Homer quote is saying that the Forearm is always driving - that's more of a third party observer comment - as if we were measuring the acceleration rate of the forearm and the Tomasello quote is more from the 1st perspective - the mover- the intent of the mover to drive the forearm or move the forearm. I only use that example to point out the different contexts that one needs to observe- it in no way is meant to separate out one as right and one as wrong.

If one were to want to make some progress or learn during a debate- one might ask questions to clearly understand the opposing view and one might want to clearly define their view for the opposing party. That way you create a platform for agreement to move forward. Hope that helps in some way.

For some reason I feel much better after posting this post- hmm... the only thing I could possibly feel better about would be if Bucket came over to play some cards- Bucket- where are you? Come on over - let's play a friendly game of cards- I've got those candy bars you like! I've got to go now - my Doctor Augusta Golf says I shouldn't be out this long without more medication.

[Scottgas2]

The driving of the right forearm, in spite of a couple of smaller extensors
in the forearm whose tendons cross the elbow, is primarily driven by the much larger extensors of the upper arm: triceps etc.
I don't know if you can play golf, but you can still extend the elbow if the tendons to the distal extensors are cut.

I love the Deitrick (sorry about the spelling) letters and have watched them many times. They helped me figure out how to hit the ball without over-rotating the torso. Tommy actually says, "What has the lower body done? Absolutely nothing."
That and Bill Melhorn's instruction have improved my timing so that the ball actually goes toward where I want to hit it.

I was dismayed a few pages back when someone said that throwing the hands
al la TT will result in a significant loss of distance. Can this be verified?
Tommy seemed to think it would apply quite a smash to the ball.

[12 piece bucket]

I once heard Bucket say the same thing.

My mama heard it too . . . . got my mouth washed out with Ajax (who's gonna be the first to take pop shot at that???) too.