Ted,
I was only addressing the middle portion of Jeff's post: "Forerarm muscles can only perform the following anatomical actions-:
1) Flex, extend, abduct or adduct the fingers and thumb.
2) Palmarflex or dorsiflex the wrist.
3) Radially deviate or ulnarly deviate the wrist.
4) Pronate or supinate the hand.
Forearm muscles cannot flex or extend the elbow joint because they are distal (peripheral) to the elbow joint.
Jeff."
Hopefully, that makes my post more relevant.
Mike,
Then tell us why would Homer write...."and the Right Forearm is ALWAYS DRIVING." And why would Tomasello say "DRIVE that right forearm to a long right arm" while demonstrating the swinging procedure.
Then tell us why would Homer write...."and the Right Forearm is ALWAYS DRIVING." And why would Tomasello say "DRIVE that right forearm to a long right arm" while demonstrating the swinging procedure.
DG
Dave,
I'm not interested in getting involved in this debate, discussion - I was only commenting on a very narrow topic area within one of Jeff's post- with no intent to have it reflect on any wider issue- pro or con.
If we were to interpret my post- if anything - I would think it would lean more in the direction of supporting your "apparent" viewpoint than it would the "oppositions" - so I am perplexed at the nature of your question to me.
Part of the problem that I see with this thread or posts to this thread is one of communication. Specifically, when you are describing movement let's assume you need to define 1) What the intent is, 2) What muscles are being used, 3) What sensations you are sensing while the movement is being made, 4) What it looks like through the video camera, 5) Where your focus or awareness is while making the movement, 6) etc. - these are all very different for the same movement.
For example, If I decide to Drive my hand/fist through Buckets skull- that doesn't mean that I'm using the fist muscles to do it- that just describes my intent. The muscles that create that motion of the hand might simply be the tricep muscle but of course that would not cause much damage so I'd probably use muscles throughout my body - some for movement, some for support of movement, etc. etc. On to what sensation I might be aware of while I was making the movement - Would that be my hand? no, you'd have greater sensations other places (Bucket can elaborate on this further). Would I individually feel every single muscle that is contracting-No, although they are.
In summary, it's important to understand the context in which you are looking at the movement. For example, in case someone were to read your question and assume that both your quotes were saying the same thing- certainly they are not in this regard : The Homer quote is saying that the Forearm is always driving - that's more of a third party observer comment - as if we were measuring the acceleration rate of the forearm and the Tomasello quote is more from the 1st perspective - the mover- the intent of the mover to drive the forearm or move the forearm. I only use that example to point out the different contexts that one needs to observe- it in no way is meant to separate out one as right and one as wrong.
If one were to want to make some progress or learn during a debate- one might ask questions to clearly understand the opposing view and one might want to clearly define their view for the opposing party. That way you create a platform for agreement to move forward. Hope that helps in some way.
For some reason I feel much better after posting this post- hmm... the only thing I could possibly feel better about would be if Bucket came over to play some cards- Bucket- where are you? Come on over - let's play a friendly game of cards- I've got those candy bars you like! I've got to go now - my Doctor Augusta Golf says I shouldn't be out this long without more medication.
__________________
Life Goal- Developing a new theory of movement based on Brain Science
Interests - Dabbling with insanity
Hobbies- Creating Quality
Dave,
I'm not interested in getting involved in this debate, discussion - I was only commenting on a very narrow topic area within one of Jeff's post- with no intent to have it reflect on any wider issue- pro or con.
If we were to interpret my post- if anything - I would think it would lean more in the direction of supporting your "apparent" viewpoint than it would the "oppositions" - so I am perplexed at the nature of your question to me.
Part of the problem that I see with this thread or posts to this thread is one of communication. Specifically, when you are describing movement let's assume you need to define 1) What the intent is, 2) What muscles are being used, 3) What sensations you are sensing while the movement is being made, 4) What it looks like through the video camera, 5) Where your focus or awareness is while making the movement, 6) etc. - these are all very different for the same movement.
For example, If I decide to Drive my hand/fist through Buckets skull- that doesn't mean that I'm using the fist muscles to do it- that just describes my intent. The muscles that create that motion of the hand might simply be the tricep muscle but of course that would not cause much damage so I'd probably use muscles throughout my body - some for movement, some for support of movement, etc. etc. On to what sensation I might be aware of while I was making the movement - Would that be my hand? no, you'd have greater sensations other places (Bucket can elaborate on this further). Would I individually feel every single muscle that is contracting-No, although they are.
In summary, it's important to understand the context in which you are looking at the movement. For example, in case someone were to read your question and assume that both your quotes were saying the same thing- certainly they are not in this regard : The Homer quote is saying that the Forearm is always driving - that's more of a third party observer comment - as if we were measuring the acceleration rate of the forearm and the Tomasello quote is more from the 1st perspective - the mover- the intent of the mover to drive the forearm or move the forearm. I only use that example to point out the different contexts that one needs to observe- it in no way is meant to separate out one as right and one as wrong.
If one were to want to make some progress or learn during a debate- one might ask questions to clearly understand the opposing view and one might want to clearly define their view for the opposing party. That way you create a platform for agreement to move forward. Hope that helps in some way.
For some reason I feel much better after posting this post- hmm... the only thing I could possibly feel better about would be if Bucket came over to play some cards- Bucket- where are you? Come on over - let's play a friendly game of cards- I've got those candy bars you like! I've got to go now - my Doctor Augusta Golf says I shouldn't be out this long without more medication.
Dude . . . . I got your medicine . . . after reading your last 3 posts . . . . drewitgolf has asked me to feed him the whole bottle . . . . open the hatch suferboy . .. .here comes a big tasty wave . . . . wipe out soon to follow . . .
We better get one of them forum sherrif types over here soon before they start dropping like flies. Yo Belle Starr can you please ban Mikey from posting in this forum . . . LBG may have some liability issues.
This thread is dead, time to put it to bed, enough has been said, everything has been read.
Mikey, take your medicine before Bucket brings his left over Halloween candy.
__________________ Hitting the Ball is the easiest part of the game-hitting it effectively is the most difficult. Why trust instinct when there is a science."1-G.
This thread is dead, time to put it to bed, enough has been said, everything has been read.
Mikey, take your medicine before Bucket brings his left over Halloween candy.
Party Pooper! Joy Killer! What's with you - Bucket and I - just starting to have some fun and you have to call the thread dead?! Do me a favor -record your poetic post on a cassette player "This thread is dead, time to put it to bed, enough has been said, everything has been read" and then play it backwards - you'll hear the hidden message - something about Bucket, Mike O. arriving at your range and giving you a Wedgy and Woody- the signal's a little weak and it is difficult to decipher-! Where is my Medicine!!
__________________
Life Goal- Developing a new theory of movement based on Brain Science
Interests - Dabbling with insanity
Hobbies- Creating Quality
We better get one of them forum sherrif types over here soon before they start dropping like flies. Yo Belle Starr can you please ban Mikey from posting in this forum . . . LBG may have some liability issues.[/QUOT
It's way too entertaining when MikeO open his posts with comments like, "I'm not interested in getting involved in the debate" and then proceed to write one of his unibomber manifesto's. Besides, he's is also a self proclaimed computer hack, so I'm just waiting for him to ban himself.
__________________
Bagger
1-H "Because of questions of all kinds, reams of additional detail must be made available - but separately, and probably endlessly." Homer Kelly
It's way too entertaining when MikeO open his posts with comments like, "I'm not interested in getting involved in the debate" and then proceed to write one of his unibomber manifesto's. Besides, he's is also a self proclaimed computer hack, so I'm just waiting for him to ban himself.
I think you read that wrong . . . .it was "hack" with a "J". . .
I think you read that wrong . . . .it was "hack" with a "J". . .
Bucket contemplates his next post.
__________________ Hitting the Ball is the easiest part of the game-hitting it effectively is the most difficult. Why trust instinct when there is a science."1-G.
"Contemplates" would pre-suppose "Thinking" - show me any post where you would say that Bucket has applied rational thought- You Won't, You Can't, It's not there!! The Man's a LUNATIC!!!!!! A Goofball!!! Him and Fort- Please this is outrageous! You haven't got it! - Please view the Tomasello Tapes - Australian Series - Chapter 2 and 5 - view them 100 times and then have Bucket and Fort get back to me - it's all there! Now WHERE IS MY MEDICINE!!!??????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
Life Goal- Developing a new theory of movement based on Brain Science
Interests - Dabbling with insanity
Hobbies- Creating Quality
B. J. Hathaway, G.S.E.B., M.C.I.
Hybrid Mode
