Don't know if you all have seen this.....should be interesting
Journalist and author of THE SEVENTH AT ST. ANDREWS, Scott Gummer’s HOMER KELLEY’S ODYSSEY, the untold story of Homer Kelley, a genius in engineering and an advocate for a scientifically perfect golf swing, showing the impact of his book The Golfing Machine on the game of golf, and relating the story of Ben Doyle, the teacher whom Kelley selected to translate and teach his methods to golfers.
Don't know if you all have seen this.....should be interesting
Journalist and author of THE SEVENTH AT ST. ANDREWS, Scott Gummer’s HOMER KELLEY’S ODYSSEY, the untold story of Homer Kelley, a genius in engineering and an advocate for a scientifically perfect golf swing, showing the impact of his book The Golfing Machine on the game of golf, and relating the story of Ben Doyle, the teacher whom Kelley selected to translate and teach his methods to golfers.
I was actually cutting you a break thinking that some how there are two philosphies to TGM....a lower body startdown and a upper body version. Hey, if we want to stick to one version. I'll stick with Tomasello.
DG
If we want to stick to one version surely we must take Mr Kelly's advice from chapter fifteen 'AXIS TILT'. To change the plane of the Shoulder Turn without moving the Head, the golfer must tilt the Shoulder Axis by moving the Hips. That surely points to a lower body startdown?
If we want to stick to one version surely we must take Mr Kelly's advice from chapter fifteen 'AXIS TILT'. To change the plane of the Shoulder Turn without moving the Head, the golfer must tilt the Shoulder Axis by moving the Hips. That surely points to a lower body startdown?
Don't agree....the hips would move the shoulders under 10-20-B, 10-20-D, 10-20-D and 10-20-B combo, and 10-20-E. It appears 10-20-C would require 10-15-C. The startdown would come from the right forearm, the left forearm, the right forearm and the left forearm or the left wrist. For 10-20-C the start down would come from the right shoulder.
Without the Tomasello 12 DVD set you're going to have a hard time making the connection.
BTW, there is no Chapter 15 in the TGM text...but there is a component 15.
DG
Last edited by Delaware Golf : 11-29-2008 at 03:57 PM.
I think that you are right. If one starts the downswing with pelvis shift-rotation movement, that lower body action moves the lumbar spine left-laterally and increases the degree of secondary axis tilt. Then, when the upper torso subsequently rotates perpendicularly around the spinal tilt (which has increased), the right shoulder can move downplane. A golfer who starts the torso rotation with an upper torso turn (without a preceding lower body shift-rotation movement) can only turn the shoulders more horizontally which predisposes to an OTT move.
I think that you are right. If one starts the downswing with pelvis shift-rotation movement, that lower body action moves the lumbar spine left-laterally and increases the degree of secondary axis tilt. Then, when the upper torso subsequently rotates perpendicularly around the spinal tilt (which has increased), the right shoulder can move downplane. A golfer who starts the torso rotation with an upper torso turn (without a preceding lower body shift-rotation movement) can only turn the shoulders more horizontally which predisposes to an OTT move.
Jeff.
If you rotate the hips at the beginning of the downswing your shoulders will move outward....an over the top move. Watch Letter series video number #3.
DG - You wrote-: "If you rotate the hips at the beginning of the downswing your shoulders will move outward....an over the top move."
I agree with you. A golfer should never rotate the pelvis at the start of the downswing. A golfer should first shift the pelvis left-laterally in a hip squaring action before rotating the pelvis in an assertive left hip clearing action. If the pelvis rotates back 45 degrees during the backswing, then there needs to be a 135 degree pelvic rotation to get to a finish position where the pelvis is square (parallel) to the target. At the start of the downswing, there is a hip shift-rotation movement that shifts the pelvis left-laterally and squares the pelvis. The left-lateral pelvic shift movement that squares the hips (to a sit down look) also involves a 45 degree pelvic rotation. However, the left-lateral shift component dominates the lower body movement. The true left hip clearing action - a further 90 degree rotation of the pelvis - occurs in the later downswing.
One can clearly see Ben Hogan's shift-rotation movement of the pelvis in his initiating downswing action in this video lesson. Note how the pelvis squares in the early downswing (in his pump-it drill action).
Watch how the lower body movement causes his right shoulder to move downplane and causes his clubshaft to shallow-out.
DG - You wrote-: "If you rotate the hips at the beginning of the downswing your shoulders will move outward....an over the top move."
I agree with you. A golfer should never rotate the pelvis at the start of the downswing. A golfer should first shift the pelvis left-laterally in a hip squaring action before rotating the pelvis in an assertive left hip clearing action. If the pelvis rotates back 45 degrees during the backswing, then there needs to be a 135 degree pelvic rotation to get to a finish position where the pelvis is square (parallel) to the target. At the start of the downswing, there is a hip shift-rotation movement that shifts the pelvis left-laterally and squares the pelvis. The left-lateral pelvic shift movement that squares the hips (to a sit down look) also involves a 45 degree pelvic rotation. However, the left-lateral shift component dominates the lower body movement. The true left hip clearing action - a further 90 degree rotation of the pelvis - occurs in the later downswing.
One can clearly see Ben Hogan's shift-rotation movement of the pelvis in his initiating downswing action in this video lesson. Note how the pelvis squares in the early downswing (in his pump-it drill action).
Jeff.
Jeff,
You can do what you like...if you think that's right go with it. Per the Golfing Machine, I'm going to go with Tomasello's instruction. I wouldn't agrue with a lower body startdown for hitting but not for swinging. Hogan appears to be a hitter with his irons from the Shell's Wonderful World of Golf Match against Snead. Even with his Driver his hands do not get above shoulder high...Tommy's agruement was if your hands got above shoulder high the start of the downswing shouldn't happend with the lower body. Sam Snead's hands are above shoulders at least for his woods and long and mid-irons. His swinging action is consistent with 12-2-0 and Tommy's instruction.
DG - You wrote-: "Tommy's agruement was if your hands got above shoulder high the start of the downswing shouldn't happend with the lower body."
Tell that to the present World Long Drive Competiton winner - Jamie Sadloski
Or, you could offer that same advice to Jason Zuback, another World Long Drive Competition winner.
I once asked Jason how he started his downswing and he stated that all he thinks of is starting the downswing with an ultrasfast lower body shift rotation movement.
Don't agree....the hips would move the shoulders under 10-20-B, 10-20-D, 10-20-D and 10-20-B combo, and 10-20-E. It appears 10-20-C would require 10-15-C. The startdown would come from the right forearm, the left forearm, the right forearm and the left forearm or th
e left wrist. For 10-20-C the start down would come from the right shoulder
Without the Tomasello 12 DVD set you're going to have a hard time making the connection.
BTW, there is no Chapter 15 in the TGM text...but there is a component 15.
DG
DG
You're right, I'm having a really hard time making the connection. The only visualization I have is running out of right arm before the hands reach Impact Position-an automatic Throwaway. BTW, the seventh edition has not only a chapter 15 but also an Index or chapter 16. RJW.
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