I do not try to take my club back with shoulder...might be my lower part body pivot is too aggressive going back....
Indeed, the feeling of "Up" element is so weak in my golf swing...really need some drills to make my backswing more on plane.
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If you cannot take the shoulder down the clubshaft plane, you must take along some other path and add compensations - now, instead of one motion to remember, you wind up with at least two!
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