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The Real Clubhead Lag!

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Old 01-12-2006, 01:51 PM
EdZ EdZ is offline
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Originally Posted by tongzilla



The definition of 'on plane force' and 'loading and supporting at 90 degrees'.
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Old 01-12-2006, 01:55 PM
Golfie McG Golfie McG is offline
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Clubshaft lag
So what use is clubshaft lag like this (by the way I think the magnitude of the bend "observed" here is a aperture speed issue) if the shaft is bent toe up? Does anyone think this is useful in transfering power to the ball? If so how?

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Old 01-12-2006, 02:25 PM
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Transferring Power
Originally Posted by Golfie McG
So what use is clubshaft lag like this (by the way I think the magnitude of the bend "observed" here is a aperture speed issue) if the shaft is bent toe up? Does anyone think this is useful in transfering power to the ball? If so how?

Golfie
Per 2-E "Notice this - the ball acquires only 70% of the Clubhead "approach" speed (so there must be speed) but 100% of the Clubhead "separation" speed (so there must be resistance to deceleration)...Prestress (Acceleration) stiffen the Clubshaft for consistent (minimum to maximum) resistance to Impact Deceleration."

By loading the shaft, you "prestress" it, making it less susceptible to deceleration during impact.

Why is that needful?

Because ball speed is dependent on two factors; Clubhead approach speed and Clubhead separation speed.

The more loaded the shaft, the more it resists deceleration because of a greater Moment of Inertia, hence increasing the second contributing factor to ball speed - separation speed.

With high approach speed and high separation speed, we will get high ball speed ceteris paribus which translates into "big" shots!

Hope that helped.
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Old 01-12-2006, 02:37 PM
Golfie McG Golfie McG is offline
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Direction of Clubshaft bend
Compda,

Thank you for the by the book answer.

Please take a harder look at the diection of the supposed bend in this shaft and tell me if you think this will increase clubspeed. The shaft is bent so that it is toe up, is it not?

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Old 01-12-2006, 04:41 PM
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Toe Up?
Originally Posted by Golfie McG
Compda,

Thank you for the by the book answer...
Golfie,

Can you please elaborate on this statement..."The shaft is bent so that it is toe up, is it not?"
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Old 01-12-2006, 04:57 PM
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Guys, if you think the shaft bending look by Bobby is a shutter speed issue, I suggest you try and film yourself with a moderate shutter speed camera (e.g. 1/1000) and see. The greater the blurriness the lower the shutter speed, or you can be using a high shutter speed but not enough light. With a shutter speed of 1/2000 which you can get on most cheap camcorders these days, there should be very little/no blurriness of the hands. Anyway, the fact is that Bobby has snapped quite a few XXX shafts when loading on the downstroke. Could it be that stiffer shafts are actually easier to break than whippy shafts if you're strong? I don't know...
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Old 01-12-2006, 05:10 PM
Golfie McG Golfie McG is offline
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Experiment
Originally Posted by tongzilla
Guys, if you think the shaft bending look by Bobby is a shutter speed issue, I suggest you try and film yourself with a moderate shutter speed camera (e.g. 1/1000) and see. The greater the blurriness the lower the shutter speed, or you can be using a high shutter speed but not enough light. With a shutter speed of 1/2000 which you can get on most cheap camcorders these days, there should be very little/no blurriness of the hands. Anyway, the fact is that Bobby has snapped quite a few XXX shafts when loading on the downstroke. Could it be that stiffer shafts are actually easier to break than whippy shafts if you're strong? I don't know...
Tong,

I assume from your response that you tried the experiment and failed? Nuf said.

There may be other issues with the photography. The only inages worth considering for this kind of evidence are stroboscopic. Over and out.


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Old 01-12-2006, 05:22 PM
Golfie McG Golfie McG is offline
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Toe up
Originally Posted by comdpa
Golfie,

Can you please elaborate on this statement..."The shaft is bent so that it is toe up, is it not?"
Justin,

The clubhead has rotated to the plane. The transition bends the club shaft so the the toe effectively becomes marginally closer to the grip of the club - therefore I choose to say toe up. What good is that. The Lag that Homer believed in was that the shaft would be bent backwards prior to impact. This is a different bend.

Golfie

PS I wish I had Yoda's gift for writing clarity!
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Old 01-12-2006, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Golfie McG
The Lag that Homer believed in was that the shaft would be bent backwards prior to impact. This is a different bend.
By the way Golfie, I really appreciate your contributions.

Can you please give references in the book regarding your statement above?

Thanks
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Old 01-14-2006, 06:48 AM
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BerntR BerntR is offline
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Originally Posted by comdpa
Per 2-E "Notice this - the ball acquires only 70% of the Clubhead "approach" speed (so there must be speed) but 100% of the Clubhead "separation" speed (so there must be resistance to deceleration)...Prestress (Acceleration) stiffen the Clubshaft for consistent (minimum to maximum) resistance to Impact Deceleration."
Although Sergio's prestressed shaft looks (and is) impressive and probably helps increase ball speed, it doesn't happen tha way it's indicated in a few of the posts here. The prestress that we see on these pictures is more or less completely unloaded a long time before impact. And it's probably reloaded and unloaded a second time before impact. Shaft loading profile depends on swing technique. See this link. The first graph that appears has to loading bursts and is the most typical loading and unloading pattern:

http://www.truetemper.com/shaftlab/profile.html

Please also note that the shaft is completely unloaded at impact. Only centrifugal acceleration and mass velocity is at work, and the toe of the club is pointing down. Don't underestimate the power of centrifugal force regarding impact deceleration resistance!

The prestressing of course happens because active torq is applied. The torque causes a clubshaft bend that has a similar effect as an increased wrist cock. That in itself will contribute to increased swing speed.

Back to the pictures of Sergio: With the same swing and even stiffer shaft, the torque in the wrist cock would increase because the shaft wouldn't bend as much. That torque increase would in fact lead to reduced swing speed - as in clubhead throw away. As a general rule, big wrist cock (with a help of shaft bend) early in the swing will produce increased swing speed. Torque might increase swing speed if it is applied very late in the swing (as for hitters?)but that has no relation to what we are seing in this pictures.
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