... let me raise another point. Homer also said lie angle doesn't matter...
Now I know some very knowledgeable people (i.e. has knowledge in TGM and clubfitting) who disagree with that.
Careful, here, Leo.
I spent a week personally with Homer Kelley and a year or so on the phone with him on both sides of that week. Further, I have on disc all three of his GSEM (Golf Stroke Engineering Master) Classes (some eighty hours of audio recordings). In all that experience, I have yet to hear the words you have attributed to him.
He has said that the cambered iron sole and the ever-ready Right Forearm permits positioning between the various Planes, but he never said "Lie angle doesn't matter." In fact, Club Guru Ralph Maltby was in one of his early 'lecture series' classes (arranged by Ben Doyle for interested professionals), and he showed Homer the now familiar club-with-rod-extending- from-the-Clubface to illustrate how lie angle affects Clubface alignment. Homer was impressed with this visual, and he noted the demonstrated fact in 2-D-0:
"Tilting the Leading Edge changes the Clubface alignment. Up--to the left. Down--to the right. Merely deviating from the Address Plane Angle will do this by tilting the Clubshaft."
More and more I see personal agendas being promoted -- not yours -- with unchallenged, unsubstantiated statements such as "Homer said this or Homer said that and this particular tour player is obviously not doing this or that." Or "Lynn teaches only this kind of student in only this way or that." Or hypotheticals such as "If Homer was still alive he would change his thinking because of this or that." Or even "If Homer was teaching in a driving range setting he wouldn't be successful because of this or that."
"PS I really think that Homer's incubator ultimately would have given him the Pivot Stroke Center Tripod (for consistency with the Swing and Hit differentiation) but, oh well..."
Be careful, Lynn...
Mike,
You are a great Ball Striker and a 'nice guy' in person. However, I find your continued negative, baiting behavior on this site both inexplicable and abominable. Whatever you've got against Ted and me is now between you and your guidance counselor.
Post as you will elsewhere, but you are no longer welcome here, and effective immediately, you are banned from our site.
Conventional fitting these days is to play with the lightest most flexible shaft "that you can control". Homer (from the thread) says "Stiffer better".
I have fitted people with the view of 'that you can control' being the leading issue. If you are a swinger you can feel a lagging clubhead MORE with a whippy shaft as its still "way back there" vs a stiffer rod.
Yoda, what did Homer say about shaft Torque as that is all about the clubface twisting though impact and of course release too?
Players with better release mechanisms fit with stiffer shafts. Lesser golfing mortals generally feel more with a softer flex.
Torque wise same.
I personally like flexible shafts with low torque but I stress that is for my own clubs.
Hope that adds a bit of a twist to the to the conversation.
Yoda, what did Homer say about shaft Torque as that is all about the clubface twisting though impact and of course release too?
Thanks for adding to this discussion, Paul.
Regarding Shaft Torque, we didn't have the sophisticated measurements available today, but when it came to 'wobbly' Clubfaces, Homer Kelley felt that 'less is more.'
Originally Posted by golfguru
Hope that adds a bit of a twist to the to the conversation.
Conventional fitting these days is to play with the lightest most flexible shaft "that you can control". Homer (from the thread) says "Stiffer better".
I have fitted people with the view of 'that you can control' being the leading issue. If you are a swinger you can feel a lagging clubhead MORE with a whippy shaft as its still "way back there" vs a stiffer rod.
Yoda, what did Homer say about shaft Torque as that is all about the clubface twisting though impact and of course release too?
Players with better release mechanisms fit with stiffer shafts. Lesser golfing mortals generally feel more with a softer flex.
Torque wise same.
I personally like flexible shafts with low torque but I stress that is for my own clubs.
Hope that adds a bit of a twist to the to the conversation.
Are you the legendary PAUL HART from Australia and mentor to STEVE KHATIB? If so, we met at the Australian Super School for HG. If I've got the right man, you'll be a great asset to those in this forum. Thank you for helping to shed light on any subject on this site. You and Steve were true gentlemen and made all of us Americans feel welcome when we were "Down Under".
Ted Fort
Paul Hart and I are working on doing some stuff down under to get TGM better known to the masses. PHart is about 3000 miles from me currently in Melbourne.
Paul Hart and I are working on doing some stuff down under to get TGM better known to the masses. PHart is about 3000 miles from me currently in Melbourne.
Yup us Aussies are generally pretty friendly
I've got a friend at Royal Melbourne. We could meet and play a round or two. Maybe I can talk Yoda into going to the land down under. I would love to have Steve and Paul x 2 to meet Yoda. It would be an awesome meeting of the minds. Maybe we could have a Pacific Rim summit. There are some in the Orient that have traveled to the swamp that might want to come, too. Let's keep that on the front burner.
I believe you can easily get a shaft that's too stiff for you.
That is the conventional wisdom, Leo. Always has been. Homer Kelley -- and Karsten Solheim, founder of Ping -- believed otherwise.
On what facts do you base your opinion?
Sorry Yoda, I have no "facts" to back up my claim that the stiffest shaft is not the best for everyone. But, YodasLuke has mentioned the shafts you're currently using are one step less stiff than his. Why don't you yourself use the stiffest of shafts?
Guys, this discussion may sound a bit heated, but as usual I'm here to learn and see what others have to say
If you want to talk about Shaft Stiffness go to the little boys room! This thread was supposed to be about
BEATIN' YOUR WHEAT AND PULLIN' YOUR ROPE!!!!!
Now back to the matter at hand . . .
This paragraph was wacked by Mr. K from the 5th edition pretty much:
A Ball-related Release (10-19-0) for Swingers can be produced by using Right Arm Thrust instead of Body Momentum to resist Clubhead slow-down during extension, if there is sufficient Clubhead inertial to restrict Lag Pressure thrust (6-C) to only an Extensor Action Application (6-B-1-D, 2-M-3). Its execution must produce a true centrifugal Throw-Out action as outlined in 6-B-3-0. This Throw-Out action is termed herein as "Centrifugal Acceleration" to indiciate that Centrifugal Force (Centrifugal Reaction), not muscle, is propelling the Secondary Lever Assembly (the Golf Club) into Impact. So Swingers are totally dependent on their skill at manipulating Centrifugal Force while Hitters are not. But Study 4-D, 6-F-0 and 6-R-0.
So since we are advised to compare the Primary Lever Assembly with the common flail, WHAT DOES THE RIGHT ARM CONTRIBUTE IN THIS ANALOGY? Structure via Extensor Action only? The right hand is certainly attached to the flail apparatus but what DO IT DO?
Sorry Yoda, I have no "facts" to back up my claim that the stiffest shaft is not the best for everyone. But, YodasLuke has mentioned the shafts you're currently using are one step less stiff than his. Why don't you yourself use the stiffest of shafts? Guys, this discussion may sound a bit heated, but as usual I'm here to learn and see what others have to say
Not 'heated' from my end at all, Tong.
What I said in my post #10 above was that Homer Kelley believed that golfers of all abilities would benefit from stiff shafts. [I think the S400 in my irons and X100 in my woods qualify!] However, in most cases, they play with the more flexible, 'regular' Shafts either recommended to them or that they buy 'off the rack.' You have stated your opinion that a golfer can "easily get a shaft that is too stiff." Apparently, others agree.
Hybrid Mode
