Let me first apologize if my High Level of Frustration comes out, it is really intended to anyone, it is I am just frustrated. I ask questions, get quoted reference from the book which I have already referenced in my question. I can't get an answer other than what comes across is 'just accept it, believe it, etc.'.
Now I am not in anyway trying to disprove TGM, in fact what I am trying to do is get some clarification so it more understandable. I really don't understand, am I just as dumb as a box of rocks?
1. I have never said that the Sweet Spot Plane and Angle doesn't exist. In fact in part in my journey it is clear that the concept of the Sweet Spot Plane and Angle is what IMO bridges the gap between mechanics and feel.
2. My questions still go unanswered. Is there anyone who can just answer each question directly and not write a dissertation of generalities?
I would hope this doesn't go unresponded too but I believe in my other thread if you look at the questions, view the references, maybe you can show the error of my ways.
My quest started to just better understand analyzing videos/photos and understanding general golf terms applied to TGM to communicate clearly. Also I challenged the use of Plane Board, both in TGM and as a valid training aid and again, even in the initial post here validates my position that it is not validate if I am to accept the that there is no difference between the 'Feel' and 'Mechanics' in the swing.
If anyone wants I can repeat the questions and references in this thread.
I understand completely, Martee. And, I also understand that it's very easy to get frustrated, when we find words in TGM that say "unless otherwise noted." My post above was not directed at anyone either, but it's one of the many ways that I try to explain away the sweetspot rotating around the shaft. You understand that there are millions that don't nor will they ever see that simple concept.
Do you want me to go back to the thread and bring the questions in here? Or, would you like to put the discrepancies in a "x" versus "y" scenario? Also, I'm certainly not an omnipotent and omniscient immortal that lives here on Earth. I am on the same quest as you, and I learn something new everyday. But, I'd be glad to share whatever knowledge I'm able to give to you or to anyone else.
By the way, I'm in agreement with you about the use of Plane boards or the use of the big pvc circles, etc.
__________________
Yoda knows...and he taught me!
For those less fortunate, Swinging is an option.
Last edited by YodasLuke : 01-26-2006 at 06:38 PM.
Sorry Ted, it is just that, well I am Frustrated cause some comments made are without the correct qualifiers IMO and this is base on going through TGM, all the forums, etc. If I have one word doc on Planes,Lines and Angles, I have two dozen. I keep starting all over. Plane Boards, lines on photos, etc. all just drive me up the wall when I apply my obviously limited understanding of TGM.
I am not a good writer and more often than not don't express myself well, I keep at it but that damn wall is starting to hurt this head of mine....
I will open another thread up, try and keep it to a single point, though I am really trying to figure out this thing called a Target Line wrt to Plane Line and Line of Flight.
Thanks for you consideration...Off to a new thread...
YodasLuke wrote ..
Moment of inertia should always be discussed relative to an axis of rotation. This axis might run through the Cg(m) or it might not. The pivot axis does not go through the human Cg(m), making MOI and axis important in this case as well. In the golf club case, the MOI is usually discussed about the club shaft axis, since we have our hands attached to it. The clubshaft MUST leave the plane
An accurate description but the conclusion is not an absolute. This makes several assumptions IMO:
1. That the shaft is being rotate external to the source of force.
2. That the center line must oriented to point or have a relationship on a tangential straight line from its initial reference at all times.
I need to think some more on this. I know where you are going with this but I am not sure you can establish this as an absolute. The hatchet, it goes end over end more like in an elliptical orbit as it goes forward, not quite what I would equate to the golf club.
For anyone who doesn't believe that the this invisible line doesn't exist, probably doesn't believe that gravity exist.JMO.
Martee - perhaps another way to visualize what is happening is to think of the triangle that is formed by 1) the ground 2) the shaft 3) a line that traces the underside of the arms at address.
as viewed from down the line.
'THE' plane is actually the line, the side of the triangle, that traces the underside of the arms. When you swing your 'hands', the pressure points, they move up and down that line (see 10-13-D).
If you have zero #3 accumulator, the clubshaft very nearly does stay on that plane.
However if you have some #3 accumulator, the clubshaft must be 'thrown out' from that plane.
Hence Ted's statement, the clubshaft MUST leave the plane. That throw 'out' is due to the pivot.
So when tracing, it can be quite useful to trace your hands along what is basically your toe line.
The "pipeline".
Annika does this quite well.
I hope this helps.
__________________
"Support the On Plane Swinging Force in Balance"
"we have no friends, we have no enemies, we have only teachers"
Simplicity buffs, see 5-0, 1-L, 2-0 A and B 10-2-B, 4-D, 6B-1D, 6-B-3-0-1, 6-C-1, 6-E-2
Martee - perhaps another way to visualize what is happening is to think of the triangle that is formed by 1) the ground 2) the shaft 3) a line that traces the underside of the arms at address.
as viewed from down the line.
'THE' plane is actually the line, the side of the triangle, that traces the underside of the arms. When you swing your 'hands', the pressure points, they move up and down that line (see 10-13-D).
If you have zero #3 accumulator, the clubshaft very nearly does stay on that plane.
However if you have some #3 accumulator, the clubshaft must be 'thrown out' from that plane.
Hence Ted's statement, the clubshaft MUST leave the plane. That throw 'out' is due to the pivot.
So when tracing, it can be quite useful to trace your hands along what is basically your toe line.
The "pipeline".
Annika does this quite well.
I hope this helps.
I need to think on this for awhile. But what I understood Ted's post was coming from the shaft rotates around the sweet spot, thus the shaft must move off plane. The plane under discussion is the Sweet Spot Plane and the fact that this rotation (some can be contribute due to the swivel) requires the club shaft to move off the Inclined Plane and toward the Sweet Spot Plane.
A Swinger- because of the location of pp3- moves the shaft and sweetspot on the same plane until release. The shaft stresses to seek the sweetspot plane into impact as acc3 rolls to square the face.
A Hitter because of its location of pp3- behind the shaft and the beginning of the sweetspot line to the clubface- drives the sweetspot plane onto the ball.
Swing educated hands- pp3- and all takes care of itself.
Hybrid Mode
