I've had so many lessons today, but I'm going to try to get back to post a response soon.
I can help you get better, guaranteed!
Originally Posted by stags14
What type of guarantee do you offer?
Interesting question.
And entirely appropriate given the 'guarantee' extended.
I happened to be there this afternoon as Ted took his break time between lessons to jot off his quick reply to you. In his normal, enthusiastic way, he 'guaranteed' he could help you "get better." Presumably, that means 'money back' if he can't. But two things come to mind...
First, I doubt seriously that his guarantee extends to airfare, room and board. Nor should it. The student risks money and the instructor risks time. Risk meets risk in a middle called the marketplace. And in this instance, that marketplace is the price of the instructor's time.
Second, the limiting truth is that the instructor can only inform and explain.
It is the student who must absorb and apply.
I can 'guarantee' that Ted Fort gives his students 100 percent. And then some.
Unfortunately, I can also 'guarantee' that there are students who do not bring to his lesson tee that same commitment.
And unless the 'guarantee' works both ways...
It is a foolish instructor who extends it.
And a deluded or perhaps opportunistic student who accepts it.
First off, welcome. Second off, I know exactly where you are coming from because I was there recently (although not quite as good as you already are). I have Hardy's book; I have Hogan's book; I now have The Golfing Machine. I used to frequent another "one-plane" swing site that I now consider a fraud.
To me, Hardy has a great concept but there are several pieces missing in it and not very much good information out there to help you get through it. I like his concept because he comes from a simplicity standpoint. However, I think it's a bit too simplistic. I tried implementing his stuff and found that other "one-plane" swing site and tried doing that as well. I ended up with the shanks and couldn't figure out how to fix them. I would go through periods of decent ball striking only to have a period of shanks come back.
Then I started looking more into TGM, and honestly I thought these guys were a bunch of freaks at first. It's the jargon (sorry guys) that creates a barrier at first. It's also the fact that people have been told over and over that the golf swing is simple and we should just keep it simple. Why cloud your mind with all these thoughts about mechanics? I'll tell you why. I can self-diagnose my own swing with decent results. I am even starting to correct it. I think those who think we should swing "natural" or forget about mechanics never really competed in other sports. Or, if they did they didn't really understand what their bodies were doing. And they never really attained any real level of success.
Hardy's "idea" of a one-plane swing in TGM terms would be a zero-shift swing, meaning that the backstroke and downstroke trace a single plane. But Homer Kelley defined a few different planes that one can choose or is naturally inclined to use. The golfer is free to pick the one best suited, but the preferred plane (I think) is the turned shoulder plane. Kelley also described other versions where there are varying amounts of shifts, which would be akin to Hardy's dual-plane concept.
In the last couple of months I have sifted through hundreds of postings on this site and two others. I have studied the Yellow Book and taken a lesson from a member here who is also an AI (ldeit). Best of all, I am seeing results, using what I call the world's cheapest training aid -- two wooden dowels.
My advice -- start sifting through some of the stuff around here and try to get a grasp of the vocab. Check out all the videos here, visit Brian Manzella's site and ask questions. Depending on where you are located I'm sure someone here can also recommend a good AI to get you started. Oh yeah, I recommend TGM over Hardy. TGM is not a method or a trend. It is a description of the entire process and how it works and the variations that can work.
Hardy's concept of plane is flawed because angular motion does not work on parallel planes, there can only be a downplane force directly towards the plane line. Its not even a speculation or opinion, that is fact!
Mr. Hardy is talking about the forward tilt of the SHOULDERS, AND THE ANGLE THEY TURN ON IN RELATION TO THE ARMS. One Plane-- Shoulders and Arms move on a similar angle(plane). Two Plane-- SHOULDERS TURN FLATTER, ARMS MOVE MORE VERTICALLY.
A person could be a Hardy One Planer, and still have a TGM definition Plane Shift.
A golf student, especially teachers, could get some beneficial ideas from Mr. Hardy's ideas. To many TGMers, who are trained to have a very precise idea of the PHYSICS, and GEOMETRY in a golf stroke... the Hardy book may seem to have several holes in it. However, his ideas, have become very popular in some areas, so TGMers should probably know something about them. One of his players, Tom Pernice, has been playing very well as of late, as well as Olin Brown.
Hardy One Planer in TGMese... Rotated Shoulder Turn, Delayed Hip Turn, Minimal Axis Tilt, Right Arm in Punch Impact.
A good TGM instructor could probably figure out nearly any golf stroke, including One Planers.
Congruent planes are two different planes with the same angle in degrees....two parallel flat surfaces...Hardly Hardy !!!! Not one plane but two congruent planes.....so a one plane swing is two congruent planes...A Two Plane swing is a vertical + a horizontal that = an inclined plane that really means 3 planes...
so a one plane swing is a two congruent plane swing...
and a two plane swing is really a 3 plane swing...vertical + horizontal = inclined...
Hmmm...I'm just plane confused!?!?!
or am I?????
The plane that matters is the sweetspot plane......that is moving in angular motion...I agree with an earlier post!!!
The plane that matters is the sweetspot plane......that is moving in angular motion...I agree with an earlier post!!!
And from another perspective, the plane that is quite helpful to visualize - the HANDS - the path the hands (the pressure points) travel during the motion.
THIS is why Furyk is at the top of the accuracy stats.
Watch the path of his HANDS
"my hands are never out of bounds" - Moe Norman
Only the HANDS can travel on 'one plane' back and through.
The problem is one of perspective, of how folks usually look at plane - as being tied to the shaft.
At address, imagine a line running straight down the undersides of the arms, to the ground.
Your hands, the 'tip of the triangle', can stay on "that" plane back and through.
Perspective is very often the root issue when people disagree about plane, or plane shifts. There is only one 'sum' plane of force, of motion, in an efficient swing, and that plane is most easily seen by looking to the hands.
Yet another reason the "mind is in the hands" - Ben Doyle
__________________
"Support the On Plane Swinging Force in Balance"
"we have no friends, we have no enemies, we have only teachers"
Simplicity buffs, see 5-0, 1-L, 2-0 A and B 10-2-B, 4-D, 6B-1D, 6-B-3-0-1, 6-C-1, 6-E-2
And from another perspective, the plane that is quite helpful to visualize - the HANDS - the path the hands (the pressure points) travel during the motion.
THIS is why Furyk is at the top of the accuracy stats.
Watch the path of his HANDS
"my hands are never out of bounds" - Moe Norman
Only the HANDS can travel on 'one plane' back and through.
The problem is one of perspective, of how folks usually look at plane - as being tied to the shaft.
At address, imagine a line running straight down the undersides of the arms, to the ground.
Your hands, the 'tip of the triangle', can stay on "that" plane back and through.
Perspective is very often the root issue when people disagree about plane, or plane shifts. There is only one 'sum' plane of force, of motion, in an efficient swing, and that plane is most easily seen by looking to the hands.
Yet another reason the "mind is in the hands" - Ben Doyle
Hardy's "idea" of a one-plane swing in TGM terms would be a zero-shift swing, meaning that the backstroke and downstroke trace a single plane. But Homer Kelley defined a few different planes that one can choose or is naturally inclined to use. The golfer is free to pick the one best suited, but the preferred plane (I think) is the turned shoulder plane. Kelley also described other versions where there are varying amounts of shifts, which would be akin to Hardy's dual-plane concept.
And therein lies the beauty of TGM it allows a golfer to apply a set of fundamentals he or she can use reliably based on their body type of natural inclination to do certain things well physically.
It's also the biggest problem I have with most other golf swing theories. Very seldom do these theories take into the consideration a person's body type of natural attributes.
Stags,
Since you said in a previous post that you can't travel to GA., try this. It's what I did pretty much all winter:
Download every single video in the Gallery. Watch them. Again, again, and again. I recommend the Collin Neeman videos, Ben Doyle's(priceless), and Yoda's Impact Bag and also Dowels and Wedges.
Next, go to the Forums. Start with The Golfing Machine- Basic. Read all the posts, and copy and paste anything that "makes sense" to you into a Word document. Then go back into the archives and do the same thing. There is brilliant stuff in there(I'm still trying to figure out when EdZ and Yoda signed their truce ). Then work yourself thru the rest of the site, still copying and pasting. More and more stuff will make sense to you as you go.
Now, here is one thing that won't make sense when you're starting off- the book itself. In the beginning, it is brutal. But once you figure out the Three Imperatives, Three Functions, Three Stations and the Three Essentials, and Pressure Points and Flying Wedges, you'll be on your way. It sounds like a lot, but it really isn't. When I first got the book, I defied any person I knew to make sense of any paragraph in it. Now, my book is covered in highlighter with points that impact my swing.
And yet, I'm only at the beginning of my journey...
). Then work yourself thru the rest of the site, still copying and pasting. More and more stuff will make sense to you as you go.
Hybrid Mode
