No CF? No pure Swingers?

[efnef]

It seems to me that the only reason this non-issue is still alive is because some folks buy into the rants of the developer of Natural Golf and Lever Power Golf.

[EdZ]

A silly debate IMO. One of symantics.

The circle, a wheel, is a lever and a rather efficient one.

[Daryl]

Couldn't agree more.

[tongzilla]

Lets move this thread to a slightly different direction and try to understand what exactly Homer meant by:

"Lag Loading (Clubhead Feel) is classified according to difference in the procedures for accelerating the Secondary Lever Assembly (the Club). That is – Radially or Longitudinally – which are mutually exclusive. That is – both cannot be applied at the same time."

[Mike O]

Wish I had more time to type a well thought out reply- but since I don't - I'm going to "Quickly, throw one up on the board", because from the previous posts and references - I think it is clear that it is very important to understand this issue.

I'm certainly know physics expert- so bear with me.

Forces or Force Vectors have a direction and a magnitude. Another words they only move in a straight line (that's the direction)- ANY angular motion is a result of more than one force- a resultant force. For example in the golf swing or any circular motion- imagine you start with "one" force that moves the club in a straight line direction- now it will continue to go in a straight line unless another force chimes in to alter the motion- that's the centripetal force- the force towards the center. Those are the two forces that produce the resultant force of angular motion. If you take away the centripetal force- then the club goes flying off in a straight line direction- on a tangent to the circle.

So you don't have a outward force in the opposite direction of the centripetal force- i.e you don't have a centrifugal force, you have one centripetal or inward force constantly preventing the "natural" effort of the clubhead to fly in a straight line. Together they produce angular motion.

You do have centrifugal force in the sense that if you eliminate the centripetal force- then the clubhead will fly out at a tangent to the circle- which is away from the center of the circle- but that force is at right angles to the radius of the circle- not anywhere close to the direction that the radius of the circle is pointing at that point in time.

Again, Homer Kelley understood the issue- but he knew the term Centrifugal Force was a commonly used term at the time and therefore used it.

Overall, I'd guess that the typical trait of academia in this generation is to make more and more finer differentiations among concepts/facts etc. You'll find far fewer who also have the ability to integrate those facts into wider and wider integrations i.e. think in principles. Homer Kelley understood on a very practical and conscious level, the basic nature of man's method of cognition- the Golfing Machine book is an example and product of a brilliant mind at work. He not only understood the nature of the conscious mind but that of the subconscious mind- and the relationship between the two (Chapter 14)- he understood that if his conscious mind wanted to understand something that the subconscious mind would do the work and that's what he termed incubation. He understood that sometimes things were clear and other times they were not clear- that that was the nature of the learning process, and hence his term Star System Press for that pulsating star that at times is clear and other times hardly visible. I don't really consider myself a out and out - TGM fanatic- and therefore I rarely "sell" the system or Mr. Kelley- and he always said "Don't sell the system"- He knew that in that environment at that time - that it would just create more critics, more walls- so he was always low key, unassuming, and complimentary of any PGA pro and what they knew. The same is probably still true today- but He was a brilliant guy with a brilliant mind- NO, DOUBT ABOUT IT! And don't take that wrong- I'm not saying that anyone here implied differently- just wanted to jump on my own soapbox for a moment

[12 piece bucket]

Wish I had more time to type a well thought out reply- but since I don't - I'm going to "Quickly, throw one up on the board" . . .

Every single time Mike O starts with "I don't have enough time." A homerun shot follows. Great post Mike. You got a lil' bit of that brilliant (and demented) mind in you too.

What are you so busy with by the way? Pulling wings off of butterflys or exploding seagulls by feedin' 'em alka-seltzer?

[Mike O]

Every single time Mike O starts with "I don't have enough time." A homerun shot follows. Great post Mike. You got a lil' bit of that brilliant (and demented) mind in you too.

What are you so busy with by the way? Pulling wings off of butterflys or exploding seagulls by feedin' 'em alka-seltzer?

How are your weekly walks out in the courtyard going? When do we get out of here? Or is it true that you have no hope of being released?

[phillygolf]

Wish I had more time to type a well thought out reply- but since I don't - I'm going to "Quickly, throw one up on the board", because from the previous posts and references - I think it is clear that it is very important to understand this issue.

I'm certainly know physics expert- so bear with me.

Forces or Force Vectors have a direction and a magnitude. Another words they only move in a straight line (that's the direction)- ANY angular motion is a result of more than one force- a resultant force. For example in the golf swing or any circular motion- imagine you start with "one" force that moves the club in a straight line direction- now it will continue to go in a straight line unless another force chimes in to alter the motion- that's the centripetal force- the force towards the center. Those are the two forces that produce the resultant force of angular motion. If you take away the centripetal force- then the club goes flying off in a straight line direction- on a tangent to the circle.

So you don't have a outward force in the opposite direction of the centripetal force- i.e you don't have a centrifugal force, you have one centripetal or inward force constantly preventing the "natural" effort of the clubhead to fly in a straight line. Together they produce angular motion.

You do have centrifugal force in the sense that if you eliminate the centripetal force- then the clubhead will fly out at a tangent to the circle- which is away from the center of the circle- but that force is at right angles to the radius of the circle- not anywhere close to the direction that the radius of the circle is pointing at that point in time.

Again, Homer Kelley understood the issue- but he knew the term Centrifugal Force was a commonly used term at the time and therefore used it.

Overall, I'd guess that the typical trait of academia in this generation is to make more and more finer differentiations among concepts/facts etc. You'll find far fewer who also have the ability to integrate those facts into wider and wider integrations i.e. think in principles. Homer Kelley understood on a very practical and conscious level, the basic nature of man's method of cognition- the Golfing Machine book is an example and product of a brilliant mind at work. He not only understood the nature of the conscious mind but that of the subconscious mind- and the relationship between the two (Chapter 14)- he understood that if his conscious mind wanted to understand something that the subconscious mind would do the work and that's what he termed incubation. He understood that sometimes things were clear and other times they were not clear- that that was the nature of the learning process, and hence his term Star System Press for that pulsating star that at times is clear and other times hardly visible. I don't really consider myself a out and out - TGM fanatic- and therefore I rarely "sell" the system or Mr. Kelley- and he always said "Don't sell the system"- He knew that in that environment at that time - that it would just create more critics, more walls- so he was always low key, unassuming, and complimentary of any PGA pro and what they knew. The same is probably still true today- but He was a brilliant guy with a brilliant mind- NO, DOUBT ABOUT IT! And don't take that wrong- I'm not saying that anyone here implied differently- just wanted to jump on my own soapbox for a moment

Hi Mike, my name is Patrick, nice to meet you.

Great post! My favorite line, and I quote, "know physics expert"
....now that is funny.

But seriously, great post Mike!!!!!!


From my years and years of research (yeah right), and I am KNOW physics expert, I have garned that generally - while the scientic community recognizes centrifugal force - it is also known (as stated in the first 1 or 2 posts) as a pseudo force - that is, it does not exist without centripetal force.

But what the hell do they NO anyway?

[Mike O]

Bucket,
Your in room 103- and Clark's right next to you in 104- would you go in tonight before the nurse tucks him in - and take care of the situation- the other patients in the ward have had enough- we just can't take it any longer! Wait I just saw him down the hall mumbling something to himself.