When driving the right shoulder down plane, what does the right hip do? If the right hip moves out towards the ball, I hit shanks, fat shots and cannot compress the ball at all. Keeping the hip back works well if I drve the right shoulder down plane. Question, does the right hip move towards the ball at all in a proper swinging procedure or does it only turn behind the toe line? Has anyone else thought about this?
This is a great issue and one that was the hardest for me to learn. I have played since I was 17 and always tended to fade the ball or slice depending upon how hard I swung. I struggled for years and worked on my grip (stronger and stronger) to no avail. Last year I rediscovered TGM and began filming and look, look, looking at what I was really doing.
Long story short, roundhousing so grip changes were not the answer....well, not the real answer.
I began trying to work my right shoulder down and had a heck of a time. I then thought, get my left shoulder up on the downswing and the right will go down. Worked some but not all of the time.
Then one night, on TGC, I saw Martin Hall demonstrate a drill that helped me tremendously. You take your stance at the with your driver. Then take the driver and place it across your shoulders with the grip toward the target flush with your left shoulder and the head out the back (about two feet sticking out the back). Then you backswing to the top and on the downswing, try to hit the ball with the head of the driver (which you can't of course). This will give you immediate feel of getting the right shoulder down on plane. If you have not been doing this then it will feel quite different.
This single drill got me to focus on my right shoulder and I can now feel immediately when I am not down on plane with my right shoulder. I took film after this drill and the difference is quite startling. The only drawback has been that now I have to ensure I don't come under a bit (which is far better than over).
Been drawing the ball for the first time.....ever in my playing life and it is great. My buddies have noticed too since my distance immediately improved. Another side issue is that I have noticed my wrist cock now is much deeper into my swing than before which I have attributed to my shoulders pulling my hands down rather than me hitting with my hands from the top.
Try this........I have shown this to a few folks on the range, and it has worked for everyone that has tried it.
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Kevin
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Thomas Edison knew 1800 ways not to build a light bulb.
You take your stance at the with your driver. Then take the driver and place it across your shoulders with the grip toward the target flush with your left shoulder and the head out the back (about two feet sticking out the back). Then you backswing to the top and on the downswing, try to hit the ball with the head of the driver (which you can't of course). This will give you immediate feel of getting the right shoulder down on plane. If you have not been doing this then it will feel quite different.
This single drill got me to focus on my right shoulder and I can now feel immediately when I am not down on plane with my right shoulder. I took film after this drill and the difference is quite startling.
I like this Chris . Never thought of adding the Clubhead to this drill. I always used just a shaft across the shoulders to demonstrate going down the Turned Shoulder Plane. Glad it worked for you. I will incorporate this into my lesson programs. Now, I can raise my lesson rates .
I saw him doing the drill on TGC at about 3 in the morning. Usually I don't like (or do) drills but I gave it a try and found the downswing plane for the first time (for me anyway).
Since discovering it, I have used it with students at First Tee and it works great for them too. The only problem is that their flexibility allows them to come under plane a bit.
Have fun.
Kevin
__________________
Kevin
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Thomas Edison knew 1800 ways not to build a light bulb.
I have been looking at the photos of Hogan's swing in "power Golf", specifically at the degree of downswing shoulder rotation and "downness" of the right shoulder.
My basic assumption/knowledge for swingers is :-
Rotation of shoulders leads to start of throw out action
Delay throw out action by "moving in a straight line"
Secondary axis tilt provides straight line motion and delays throw out.
Now based on that I have studied the face on photos of Hogan and was surprised that his downswing begins with quite alot of shoulder rotation combined withlateral weight shift to left.
See his "end" position
Shoulder turn is about 110 degrees - John Daly style
See his "Downswing hands mid chest location"
Shoulder turn is about 30 degrees and shoulders are level.
ie. lots of rotation of shoulders for not much "downness" of right shoulder down plane
His hands have moved about 30 inches.
Now look at pictures through to impact
The shoulders complete the last 30-40 degrees of rotation but right shoulder goes much more down and more obvious tilt.
What I am leading to is a discussion of when does axis tilt occur. Hogan seems to have a definite rotation of about 70 degress on downswing before much right shoulder down plane action and tilt occurs.
Is this early ( relative to tilting) shoulder rotation the way that a swinger goes from "end " to the "top" of his straight line delivery path??
Is downswing shoulder rotation needed for "top arc" and secondary axis tilt needed for "straight line delivery "??
Do these observations seem true to you. I know that if I try to tilt too soon on downswing my weight never really shifts to the left and my right shoulder is in an impact degree of "downess" ( relative to Hogan) but my hands are still mid-chest.
Do these observations seem true to you. I know that if I try to tilt too soon on downswing my weight never really shifts to the left and my right shoulder is in an impact degree of "downess" ( relative to Hogan) but my hands are still mid-chest.
Thanks for any thoughts...
The above statement puzzles me. It's my understanding that a weight shift occurs because the hips slide left. If the head remains centered and stationary, then the hip motion results in an Axis Tilt. The Hula-Hula concept impresses upon you the necessity of the stationary head in permitting Axis tilt to occur.
The last part that say's "hands are still mid chest" can have varying causes, but obvious and easily corrected, however, Zone 1, the pivot; feet, knees, hips, and eventually shoulders needs to be corrected before Zone 2.
I have been looking at the photos of Hogan's swing in "power Golf", specifically at the degree of downswing shoulder rotation and "downness" of the right shoulder.
My basic assumption/knowledge for swingers is :-
Rotation of shoulders leads to start of throw out action
Delay throw out action by "moving in a straight line"
Secondary axis tilt provides straight line motion and delays throw out.
Now based on that I have studied the face on photos of Hogan and was surprised that his downswing begins with quite alot of shoulder rotation combined withlateral weight shift to left.
See his "end" position
Shoulder turn is about 110 degrees - John Daly style
See his "Downswing hands mid chest location"
Shoulder turn is about 30 degrees and shoulders are level.
ie. lots of rotation of shoulders for not much "downness" of right shoulder down plane
His hands have moved about 30 inches.
Now look at pictures through to impact
The shoulders complete the last 30-40 degrees of rotation but right shoulder goes much more down and more obvious tilt.
What I am leading to is a discussion of when does axis tilt occur. Hogan seems to have a definite rotation of about 70 degress on downswing before much right shoulder down plane action and tilt occurs.
Is this early ( relative to tilting) shoulder rotation the way that a swinger goes from "end " to the "top" of his straight line delivery path??
Is downswing shoulder rotation needed for "top arc" and secondary axis tilt needed for "straight line delivery "??
Do these observations seem true to you. I know that if I try to tilt too soon on downswing my weight never really shifts to the left and my right shoulder is in an impact degree of "downess" ( relative to Hogan) but my hands are still mid-chest.
If you look at pictures of Sergio Garcia... you will see a similar shoulder action to Ben Hogan. Bobby Clampett is another.
Their right shoulder does not appear to move Down, until very late in the downswing.
I believe Mr. Skywalker has some information posted dealing with AXIS TILTS and DELIVERY PATHS.
If the downswing sequencing gets off, and/or PIVOT LAG is out of order due to an emphasis on the RIGHT SHOULDER MOTION AT STARTDOWN... I can see how this could cause problems. This is sometimes a problem. When concentrating on one component, sometimes the others that should come before that one can be smothered out. All the right things need to be in there... even and especially... when you are monitoring certain things.
Thanks for the ideas BamBam. The off the world pull-hook is a major problem of mine, I hit a house across a major two lane road here in Minneapolis last week. Whenever I try to put some power in a shot, the right hip flys out. I like your suggestions and will try all of them.
When driving the right shoulder down plane, what does the right hip do? If the right hip moves out towards the ball, I hit shanks, fat shots and cannot compress the ball at all. Keeping the hip back works well if I drve the right shoulder down plane. Question, does the right hip move towards the ball at all in a proper swinging procedure or does it only turn behind the toe line? Has anyone else thought about this?
ditto for me on the right hip; if it goes out, bad things happen. Besides the shank, the worst is the well-compressed, very long pull shot that is off the planet.
When Ted worked with me on this in April, I had to feel like my hips were frozen on the downswing. Clear the hip going back, then a little lateral slide/bump to start things down, but that's it. The problem isn't gone by any means...it's been a tough one for me, but these few things have helped me the most...
1) tracing
2) pulling the butt-end of the club straight to/through the ball - try it without thinking about or moving your hips...let them be moved instead.
3) feel/sense my right elbow, still bent, brush in front of my right hip on the downswing (clearing the right hip). This one helped me really start to see #2
4) balance - especially paying attention to sensing where my weight is via my feet. If my weight gets at all towards the toes of my right foot on the backswing, I'm dead.
Still, my tendency is to fire my hips through pretty quick. On the latest video I shot, my right hip had moved quite a bit before impact, but if I do those things above, it stays out of the way - more of a "turn behind the toe line" like you mentioned. That, however, is a result of what I'm trying to accomplish w/ that list above vs. a conscious swing thought about my hip(s).
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Hybrid Mode
