I think it also depends what the student is actually doing. A student moving his head 12 inches back will require a slightly different message to a student that has a reverse pivot.
Per 1-L-2, the head is allowed to turn (but not sway or bob), but surely this rotation will change the way your eyes look at the ball. Doesn't this make the "eyes argument" obsolete, as I do not know of any great golfers who does not turn their head slightly on the backstroke? Unless, of course, you can tell the difference between a head turn and a head sway by using your eyes, which I certainly can't.
It's a shame Homer didn't add anything about the eyes, even in the 7th edition. Maybe he expected us to work it out.
Homer mentioned the eyes. And, I believe it was in the tapes from one of the Master's classes. It's a shame he didn't write about it and put it in the 7th.
You might not see it. But, let's not throw a "surely" out there just yet. You're a great ball striker, so I know you have the ability to perceive minute differences. If you say you don't see the difference, I have to believe you.
I find a very big visual difference in what the eyes perceive when the head is swaying versus the head turning. Most have the ability to move their eyes in the sockets...like this: If your eyes stayed fixed in the sockets, I could see that it would be hard to differentiate. I know your eyes do not.
I can focus my eyes on the tiny power light on my computer monitor and turn my head. As I turn my head, my eyes stay focused on the light. So, my eyes turn to the left as my head turns to the right.
When swaying, even the smallest amount, I notice the sway. There is a visual difference.
An optometrist will have to describe the way the eyes triangulate to see the differences. It's not my field. But when you sway to the right, the right eye has to be looking down the hypotenuse of a right triangle. And, your left eye would have to be looking down the shorter side. Your head would only have to move the distance from the center of your nose to the pupil of your left eye, for it to become a right triangle.
This whole "eye" discussion is interesting...but it certainly seems way out of proportion to the importance of other swing principles...Duval can shoot a 59 and he isn't even looking at the ball at impact (at least before he messed with his swing)...his head was already turned and looking down the fairway...I think Annika does the same thing and she isn't too bad a player.
This whole "eye" discussion is interesting...but it certainly seems way out of proportion to the importance of other swing principles...Duval can shoot a 59 and he isn't even looking at the ball at impact (at least before he messed with his swing)...his head was already turned and looking down the fairway...I think Annika does the same thing and she isn't too bad a player.
I agre hg. It is just that some like to agrue. Loudest guys win.
Shame.
Look into my eyes, not around the eyes but into my eyes...3, 2, 1, you're a chimp
Originally Posted by YodasLuke
I find a very big visual difference in what the eyes perceive when the head is swaying versus the head turning. Most have the ability to move their eyes in the sockets...like this: If your eyes stayed fixed in the sockets, I could see that it would be hard to differentiate. I know your eyes do not.
I can focus my eyes on the tiny power light on my computer monitor and turn my head. As I turn my head, my eyes stay focused on the light. So, my eyes turn to the left as my head turns to the right.
Sorry, I think I understand what you're getting at, but...The eyes needs to move in their sockets regardless of whether your head is turning or swaying if you want to look at the same spot. In your above example about focusing the eyes on the light of your computer, the eyes have to turn left (albeit different amounts) whether your head sways or turns. Actually, the amount of eye movement needed when you turn you head is less compared to swaying.
Originally Posted by YodasLuke
When swaying, even the smallest amount, I notice the sway. There is a visual difference.
I'm sure you know when you sway your head, but I'm just a little skeptical that it's because you can sense how much your eyes have moved in their sockes.
I'm sure you know when you sway your head, but I'm just a little skeptical that it's because you can sense how much your eyes have moved in their sockes.
It's not the amount of eye movement. It's all the changes in your field of vision, if you move.
Back on point... the more stationary the head, the less things change as you view them. The eyes help in this area.
The good thing about this site is that intelligent people can agree to disagree or find common ground. It doesn't have to become a urinating contest. We know that there are plenty of places to do that.
The current (September 2006) issue of Golf Digest features a swing sequence of Sergio Garcia, 2005 PGA TOUR leader in its most enviable statistic, Greens in Regulation.
If I'm not mistaken -- you be the judge -- Sergio is using the Homer Kelley-recommended Head Pivot Center (as opposed to its perfectly acceptable alternative, the Point-Between-the-Shoulders Pivot Center).
As has been the Lynn Blake Golf position from the beginning, the important point is not so much which Center a player chooses to use, but that he (or she) consciously selects (and ultimately relegates to subconcious control) at least some point at the top of the Pivot to stabilize its motion. But it is interesting, isn't it, that last year's greatest Ballstriker apparently has chosen the Head Pivot Center.
Here's a look at Billy Casper's action. For several years running in his career, there was much talk about The Big Three -- Nicklaus, Palmer, and Player -- but there was really a Big One...
Buffalo Billy.
Check out his Head Positon at the Top of each sequence...first the Wedge and then the Long Iron. Is it Centered? If so, that would be a Head Pivot Center for one of the great players of his time.
Here's a look at Billy Casper's action. For several years running in his career, there was much talk about The Big Three -- Nicklaus, Palmer, and Player -- but there was really a Big One...
Buffalo Billy.
Check out his Head Positon at the Top of each sequence...first the Wedge and then the Long Iron. Is it Centered? If so, that would be a Head Pivot Center for one of the great players of his time.
How about ole Billy Boy throwing the clubface at the ball with his 10-2-D Kung Fu Grip??? His follow through looks Furykie Zingerie.
Sorry off topic but couldn't help noticing a D-Grip Brotherin!
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand
Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand
Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 08-19-2006 at 11:28 PM.
. 
If your eyes stayed fixed in the sockets, I could see that it would be hard to differentiate. I know your eyes do not. 
Hybrid Mode
