Are you suggesting that the golf swing hasn't been studied by plenty of book authors and such for many decades? Forgive me for not citing specific examples, it was a general statement. You can use a photo or sequence to argue ANY point whatsoever. That's what I love about TGM, the golfer pictures inside only demonstrate the alignments and not 'this is how ____ does it'.
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BTW I've already said (prolly more than 2 times) that while HK's opinions obviously DO deserve a large amount of respect and DO hold a substantial amount of weight they are not the END to any argument by any stretch.
If that's what you think then I think you are kidding yourself frankly.
Are you suggesting that the golf swing hasn't been studied by plenty of book authors and such for many decades?
Heck no. So....have "they" come to the same conclusions as you seem to have?
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Forgive me for not citing specific examples, it was a general statement. You can use a photo or sequence to argue ANY point whatsoever.
No big deal.
Fair enough....I just said for any given golfer you need to look at more than one sequence and more than on shot type and with different clubs in hand. Fair, no?
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That's what I love about TGM, the golfer pictures inside only demonstrate the alignments and not 'this is how ____ does it'.
That is well and good as one facet of things. "How _____ does it" should hold some ground tho.
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Not the end, just the best to date IMO.
It IS the best to date.
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This thread seems to have run it's course, and I don't want to see us lower our standards here. Please either edit your posts regarding other instructors or delete them.
The ridiculous, false, and slanderous insinuations continue on the other forum, but we have put that entire organization on permanent "ignore". I would ask that friends of LBG do the same.
What's been done is forever behind us now and there is no looking back.
Thanks
You are 100% right Bagger.
There's no need to get into this...
I mean....honestly, when certain things are brought up I find it very very hard not to respond...
....but I do realize we're at the point where the thread can turn into to a crap-throwing contest. (or at least a pointless argument that has no place on a forum dedicated to golf instruction)
And frankly I feel like I should respond to those last few posts (and can easily) but I will refrain.
I'd rather talk about golf than shift the topic to something else anyway.
Last edited by birdie_man : 11-21-2006 at 12:26 AM.
Can U do both? And if so, pls tell what U think of them. Benefits and so forth
I don't know that what I use is overly important but I can put er down for the record...
I use a "between shoulders" Pivot Center....i.e. head moves to my right slightly.
Depending on the club or shot I'll setup with it in different places. As of now, pretty much always back of center with driver and most longer shots. Wedges etc. I setup with weight on the left side so my head will even be forward of center sometimes....it's never Stationary tho. (for Non-Pivot Strokes it would be actually....putts, chips)
As for benefits I'm not gonna get into that. U guys know I'm partial to a "base of neck Pivot center" by now so I'm not gonna go saying it's longer or more natural or etc. etc.
I think it's good to experiment for yourself and see what works best over some time. That will vary from player to player.
...
Also, I've hit it good using both....I just do better with a non-Stationary Head (which is the most important point)....also, I find it more natural for me and more in line with what I DO naturally.
Esp. with long clubs. (but not limited to them)
Last edited by birdie_man : 11-22-2006 at 02:38 PM.
Birdie - do you swivel your chin ala Snead/Nicklaus? If not, experiment with this as your first move. You may find this makes it significantly easier to maintain a steady head, while still making a full turn. Should allow you to keep a 'straight stare' at the ball the entire motion.
__________________
"Support the On Plane Swinging Force in Balance"
"we have no friends, we have no enemies, we have only teachers"
Simplicity buffs, see 5-0, 1-L, 2-0 A and B 10-2-B, 4-D, 6B-1D, 6-B-3-0-1, 6-C-1, 6-E-2
Birdie - do you swivel your chin ala Snead/Nicklaus? If not, experiment with this as your first move. You may find this makes it significantly easier to maintain a steady head, while still making a full turn. Should allow you to keep a 'straight stare' at the ball the entire motion.
EDZ, (And anyone else)
Since I haven't followed this thread throughout- I'd like someone to verify that one of the primary debates here is whether the head should stay still or the spine stay still and the head turns somewhat around the spine.
If that is the case then we would have:
1) The head does not turn or rotate at all- and the head stays still- and the spine stays still
2) The head rotates on the backswing and the head stays still - so that the base of the neck spine (Cervical) in that scenario has moved towards the target.
3) The head rotates on the backswing and the Cervical spine stays still so the head rotates around to the right on the backswing.
4) The head is pre-rotated- so that again the cervical spine and the head stay still.
There may be more options as I didn't put a lot of thought into this- but maybe others could add to it.
So both views have a stationary center at the top of the tripod- correct? , One has a stationary head with it and one has a rotating head with it.
Here's another question for Birdie Man or others- if you could pre-rotate your head to your desired top of the backswing location before you take the club away, then this would give you a still head and a stationary Cervical Spine- what would be the advantage to letting it move versus pre-setting it?
Those that favor head still- would within that context also be having a stationary cervical spine- correct? So the only difference is one is letting the head rotate and one is not letting the head rotate- and a pre-rotation would unify both camps-correct?
Finally, is there or has there been a perception that a centered spine would have a body "shape" that would show the back leaning away from the target at the top? Why would that be if the only difference is the amount of head rotation?
To clarify and summarize- via at least one previous post on this thread- you'll realize that I'm somewhat neutral on this "debate"- so the only agenda I have is learning more about the golf swing. And again, although I think I know the answers to my questions- I would just like Birdie Man or others who have been involved in this thread to confirm if I understand the issues or if I need some help in understanding them. I know I've got quite a few questions here and some of them repeat but would appreciate the appropriate feedback to confirm where I am on this.
Thanks,
Mike O.
EDZ, (And anyone else)
Since I haven't followed this thread throughout- I'd like someone to verify that one of the primary debates here is whether the head should stay still or the spine stay still and the head turns somewhat around the spine.
If that is the case then we would have:
1) The head does not turn or rotate at all- and the head stays still- and the spine stays still
2) The head rotates on the backswing and the head stays still - so that the base of the neck spine (Cervical) in that scenario has moved towards the target.
3) The head rotates on the backswing and the Cervical spine stays still so the head rotates around to the right on the backswing.
4) The head is pre-rotated- so that again the cervical spine and the head stay still.
There may be more options as I didn't put a lot of thought into this- but maybe others could add to it.
So both views have a stationary center at the top of the tripod- correct? , One has a stationary head with it and one has a rotating head with it.
Here's another question for Birdie Man or others- if you could pre-rotate your head to your desired top of the backswing location before you take the club away, then this would give you a still head and a stationary Cervical Spine- what would be the advantage to letting it move versus pre-setting it?
Those that favor head still- would within that context also be having a stationary cervical spine- correct? So the only difference is one is letting the head rotate and one is not letting the head rotate- and a pre-rotation would unify both camps-correct?
Finally, is there or has there been a perception that a centered spine would have a body "shape" that would show the back leaning away from the target at the top? Why would that be if the only difference is the amount of head rotation?
To clarify and summarize- via at least one previous post on this thread- you'll realize that I'm somewhat neutral on this "debate"- so the only agenda I have is learning more about the golf swing. And again, although I think I know the answers to my questions- I would just like Birdie Man or others who have been involved in this thread to confirm if I understand the issues or if I need some help in understanding them. I know I've got quite a few questions here and some of them repeat but would appreciate the appropriate feedback to confirm where I am on this.
Thanks,
Mike O.
My main point regarding using a swivel of the chin was to highlight the key reason that most people move their head. This simple address move has a number of very positive benefits to the motion, the most important of which is that it makes it significantly easier to maintain a dead still center. Additionally, it is very useful in preventing the right shoulder from going 'out' during the startdown - a very good way to help prevent roundhousing.
__________________
"Support the On Plane Swinging Force in Balance"
"we have no friends, we have no enemies, we have only teachers"
Simplicity buffs, see 5-0, 1-L, 2-0 A and B 10-2-B, 4-D, 6B-1D, 6-B-3-0-1, 6-C-1, 6-E-2
Hybrid Mode
