Bagger - I realize that one can choose not to have roll action (horizontal hinging) during the followthrough phase of the swing and that one can instead choose a non-roll action (angled hinging) or reverse-roll action (vertical hinging). However, I am interested in the biomechanics of left hand "roll" in the horizontal hinging action and in learning whether the left hand "roll" of horizontal hinging is any different to the left hand "roll" that occurs moments later during the finish swivel action, or whether they are a seamless left hand rolling action (occurring due to different biomechanical actions at different anatomical/biomechnanical levels).
I look forward to learning more from your "new" Jeff Hull swing video - when it becomes available.
A foot before contact watch the club head go form open to close after contact. That is the Horizontal hinge. Just like a door opeing and closing. The left arm has not swiveled.
As both arms go to straight the left arm swivels the the club face back on the inclined plane. Pretty amazing that Homer Kelley.
Surely you are wrong to label the change in the clubface angle from open-to-close that occurs one foot prior to impact a horizontal hinging action. That surely is the release swivel action as it occurs pre-impact. Horizontal hinging occurs post-impact and one can see horizontal hinging occurring in Anthony Kim's post-impact swing (during the followthrough phase).
What interests me about the left hand movement that occurs in the horizontal hinging action is that the left hand not only moves up the inclined plane - it also seems to supinate slightly while moving up the inclined plane, thereby causing the knuckles of the left hand to face slightly more groundwards during the followthrough phase of the swing. During the finish swivel, the left hand supinates much more (due to a different set of biomechanical actions). However, my interest in the left hand motion during horizontal hinging relates to whether the left hand supination (roll) phenomenon that occurs during horizontal hinging blends seamlessly with the left hand supination (roll) phenomenon that occurs during the finish swivel action.
Golfbulldog
I agree with your understanding of the different biomechanical mechanisms underlying the supination (roll) of the left hand during both horizontal hinging and the finish swivel. My main interest lies in the supination-roll "feel" that occurs during horizontal hinging and whether it blends seamlessly with the supination (roll) of the left hand that occurs during the finish swivel action.
I also would like to know whether Nick Bradley's description of the puck release in his book "The Seven laws of Golf" is a description of the supination (roll) action that occurs during the horizontal hinging period and finish swivel period.
Here is the photo showing his puck release swivel action.
The puck release photos look like throw away. right wrist flatten to early. I think it is helpful to differntiate between pronation and supination of forearm(radius & ulna) and pronation and supination of entire arm. Laying club off is a forearm rotation problem. The answers to your questions are important to the understanding of the proper motion. Hopefully Yoda will give us a final understanding. I understand hinging as an entire arm concept and swivel as a forearm concept. Swivel appears to be tied into forearm bending and straigtening and uncocking left wrist. Swivel puts the hands into a vertical position for impact. I guess vertical to all planes and hinging then refers to motion after impact vertical to the selected plane. Help !
Horizontal hinging occurs pre and post impact. The finish swivel is "the gateway"from the both arms straight position of follow through, to the re- cocking of the left wrist to the finish.
I cannot understand what you mean when you state that horizontal hinging occurs pre-impact. Where in TGM does HK state that it occurs pre-impact?
I understand that the finish swivel starts when the followthrough is complete - when both arms are fully straight.
Look at this series of capture images of Tiger Woods swing.
Do you agree that horizontal hinging occurs in images 1,2, 3 and that followthrough is complete in image 3? Do you agree that the finish swivel is occurring in images 4 and 5?
Now, what interests me is that Tiger Woods degree of right wrist bend in image 3 is less in image 3 than image 1. Why? I suspect that it is due to pronation of the right hand and supination of the left hand, which is occurring during the horizontal hinging action phase of the golf swing. The question is whether I am accurate in my visual assessment of Tiger Woods swing, and whether this rotation of the left/right hands is part-and-parcel of the horizontal hinging action.
Look at this series of capture images of Tiger Woods swing.
Do you agree that horizontal hinging occurs in images 1,2, 3 and that followthrough is complete in image 3? Do you agree that the finish swivel is occurring in images 4 and 5?
Now, what interests me is that Tiger Woods degree of right wrist bend in image 3 is less in image 3 than image 1. Why? I suspect that it is due to pronation of the right hand and supination of the left hand, which is occurring during the horizontal hinging action phase of the golf swing. The question is whether I am accurate in my visual assessment of Tiger Woods swing, and whether this rotation of the left/right hands is part-and-parcel of the horizontal hinging action.
There is no true rotation of the Left Wrist during the Horizontal Hinge Action. Though it appears to Roll, it is merely maintaining its 'vertical to the ground' alignment.
There is a true rotation -- supination -- of the Left Wrist into Impact (Release Swivel) and out of the Follow-Through (Finish Swivel). But . . .
I cannot understand what you mean when you state that horizontal hinging occurs pre-impact. Where in TGM does HK state that it occurs pre-impact?
I understand that the finish swivel starts when the followthrough is complete - when both arms are fully straight.
Look at this series of capture images of Tiger Woods swing.
Do you agree that horizontal hinging occurs in images 1,2, 3 and that followthrough is complete in image 3? Do you agree that the finish swivel is occurring in images 4 and 5?
Now, what interests me is that Tiger Woods degree of right wrist bend in image 3 is less in image 3 than image 1. Why? I suspect that it is due to pronation of the right hand and supination of the left hand, which is occurring during the horizontal hinging action phase of the golf swing. The question is whether I am accurate in my visual assessment of Tiger Woods swing, and whether this rotation of the left/right hands is part-and-parcel of the horizontal hinging action.
Jeff.
Jeff,
Notice how far back Tiger's head is. It has a direct influence on the rate of closure of the clubface. Tiger appears to maintain his left arm flying wedge, but the rate it rotates post impact is related to his head position. He used to (might still) get callouses (sp?) on his wrists from rubbing them together in his finish.
Hybrid Mode
