Right forearm takeaway

[Jeff]

OB left - you wrote-"Yes. Fanning and bending like a hand clap. The RFT is a great and consistent way of taking the club away. I used to push things away with my shoulders and left arm, rocking the triangle. It caused all sorts of problems for me. RFT pulls the rest along in a reliable , consistent and perfectly aligned manner."

I agree.

When I started my personal golf instructional website 2 years ago (as a pet hobby interest) I used David Leadbetter's and Jim McLeans books as a guide.

This is the photograph that I use in my backswing chapter - from one of David Leadbetter's books.



He recommended an one piece takeaway while keeping the clubhead low to the ground and he also encouraged a golfer to separate the right arm from the torso by a few inches to acquire width.

I now believe that this stiff two-arm takeaway is a mistake. I also think that this it is a mistake to try and keep the clubhead low to the ground. I agree with Yoda's advice regarding the right forearm takeaway in his DVD instruction - that the clubhead should move up-and-inside immediately as one start the right forearm takeaway. Keeping the club low to the ground is an artificial maneuver that doesn't make sense from a mechanical perspective.

I also believe that my right clap hand motion may be the "best" (easiest) way of thinking how to perform a right forearm takeaway. The only minor modification required is that one also needs to apply extensor action when performing the right clap hand maneuver - which automatically causes the width of the right clap hand action to increase to ensure that the left arm is pulled straight. Yoda demonstrates this extensor action movement very well in his DVD lesson. I love his extensor action drills. I think that he thoroughly clarifies the extensor action motion in his DVD lesson.

Jeff.

[O.B.Left]

After playing this game for 38 years I am now not sure what a one piece takeaway is. I used to think I knew, but now think I had it wrong maybe.

For me it was a movement of the shoulders and arms away in one piece. Pivot to hands. No right elbow bending early. This is now about the worst thing I sometimes fall back into. This isnt to say that some may like or use it to their advantage. Probably some major winners who employed it, but for me it didnt work consistently.

I used to turn the shoulders and extend both arms , long and low, with the triangle maintained. You can even keep the right arm straight if you move the left shoulder back off the get go. You get angled hinging or maybe a dead shut clubface and no or little left wrist cock. I spent a lot of time trying to actively cock my wrists, both of them.

No longer. Now, with the shoulders non active the right arm pulls the left arm which in turn pulls the left shoulder around. This component lag, I think, allows or encourages the check rein action of the left arm to fold the right elbow which cocks the left wrist. This is "magic", eh? Or one aspect of it anyways.

Still inside the incubator on all of this but thats where I am at now. No active shoulder turning or right elbow bending or left wrist cocking. It all just sort of happens. But you need extensor action to tie it all together.

Lynn or others may come in and tell me this is not quite right. I invite that 'cause it will only make my takeaway all the better.


OB

[Jeff]

You write-: "I used to turn the shoulders and extend both arms , long and low, with the triangle maintained."

When you state "extend both arms" I think that it correctly describes the mental picture that many golfers have in their mind when they think of the one piece takeaway. However, as Yoda accurately demonstrated in his DVD lesson, the right forearm at address must be held in a certain manner with respect to the left arm, so that the right elbow can start to fold and the right forearm can start to fan (as if performing a right clap hand action) very soon after the right forearm takeaway commences. The main purpose of the takeaway is to simply carry one's hands (and clubshaft) to the "correct" end-backswing position where the left arm flying wedge and right arm flying wedge are correctly aligned (and the entire power package assembly is correctly loaded).

Standing stiffly with extended arms leads to all sorts of incorrect backswing actions - like this frequently performed one piece takeaway action that leads to reverse pivoting.



Jeff.

[Jeff]

Yoda - you are correct.

I was incorrect to state that the left arm flying wedge is on-plane. I should have stated that the back of the left hand is on-plane because it is the only part of the left arm that approximates the inclined plane.

Consider this composite photo of Stuart Appleby.



His clubshaft is on-plane at the top of his backswing, which means that the flat left wrist and right palm are alongside, and
parallel to the inclined plane. However, the left arm is angled slightly off-plane in the direction of the left shoulder socket.

Yoda - this issue made me think of another question, which I have now added.

If a golfer has flexible wrists, and he can bend his right wrist back to 90 degrees at the end-backswing position so that he can get his right forearm angled closer to 90 degrees relative to the clubshaft at the end-backswing position, is that a disadvantage? In other words, I can understand the right forearm flying wedge acting as a supporting strut to the left arm flying wedge at the end-backswing position, but I was wondering whether it is disadvantageous to allow the right wrist to bend back fully by the end of the backswing - thereby altering the angular relationship between the right forearm and the left arm flying wedge?

Jeff.

[Yoda]

Yoda - this issue made me think of another question, which I have now added.

If a golfer has flexible wrists, and he can bend his right wrist back to 90 degrees at the end-backswing position so that he can get his right forearm angled closer to 90 degrees relative to the clubshaft at the end-backswing position, is that a disadvantage?

. . . I was wondering whether it is disadvantageous to allow the right wrist to bend back fully by the end of the backswing - thereby altering the angular relationship between the right forearm and the left arm flying wedge?

The Left Wrist is the Master Wrist, and ideally, dictates any movement (Horizontal, Perpendicular or Rotational) of the Right. The Bent Right Wrist at Impact, then, is the complement of the Flat Left Wrist, and this relationship is established no later than the Top.

Any undue Bend (Horizontal Motion) in the Right Wrist will produce a corresponding Arch in the Left. While a "small amount is advisable and useful . . . as amplification of the Clubhead Lag" (4-A-3), any exaggeration will disrupt the precision alignments of the Flying Wedges and, hence, the entire Power Package Assembly.

[Jeff]

Ed

Jeff - the other big key in my view, at least for a swingers RFT is that the elbows stay the same distance apart and point down. This helps ensure the turn is on plane during RFT, and that the loading action on PP#3 is rotated "on line". (wheel rim)

I was wondering - if the right upper limb (via the right clap hand action and bending, but level, right wrist) keeps the clubshaft on-plane throughout the backswing, then essentially the left hand's movement in space is dictated by movement of the right hand in space. Then if the left hand's movement in space is already dictated by the right hand - and the left arm is always kept straight and the left wrist is always kept flat - then wouldn't the left arm/elbow's movement automatically occur in a certain way without having to worry about it? In other words, I am presuming that the timing of left arm/forearm clockwise rotation and left wrist upcocking would occur automatically - if the right upper limb moves correctly.

Jeff.

[Jeff]

Yoda - you wrote-: "Any undue Bend (Horizontal Motion) in the Right Wrist will produce a corresponding Arch in the Left."

I can understand that situation existing at impact - when the right forearm is "fixedly" on-plane any excessive right wrist bend will produce an arched left wrist.

However, what about the top of the backswing? If the left wrist remains flat throughout the entire backswing, then wouldn't small variations in the degree of right wrist bend at the top of the backswing simply cause small variations in angling of the right forearm (relative to the left arm flying wedge) and small variations in the position of the right elbow. Would that be consequential in terms of swing mechanics?

Jeff.

[EdZ]

Yoda - you wrote-: "Any undue Bend (Horizontal Motion) in the Right Wrist will produce a corresponding Arch in the Left."

I can understand that situation existing at impact - when the right forearm is "fixedly" on-plane any excessive right wrist bend will produce an arched left wrist.

However, what about the top of the backswing? If the left wrist remains flat throughout the entire backswing, then wouldn't small variations in the degree of right wrist bend at the top of the backswing simply cause small variations in angling of the right forearm (relative to the left arm flying wedge) and small variations in the position of the right elbow. Would that be consequential in terms of swing mechanics?

Jeff.

The reason that clubface control is best kept in the left hand. (bold above).

[EdZ]

Ed

Jeff - the other big key in my view, at least for a swingers RFT is that the elbows stay the same distance apart and point down. This helps ensure the turn is on plane during RFT, and that the loading action on PP#3 is rotated "on line". (wheel rim)

I was wondering - if the right upper limb (via the right clap hand action and bending, but level, right wrist) keeps the clubshaft on-plane throughout the backswing, then essentially the left hand's movement in space is dictated by movement of the right hand in space. Then if the left hand's movement in space is already dictated by the right hand - and the left arm is always kept straight and the left wrist is always kept flat - then wouldn't the left arm/elbow's movement automatically occur in a certain way without having to worry about it? In other words, I am presuming that the timing of left arm/forearm clockwise rotation and left wrist upcocking would occur automatically - if the right upper limb moves correctly.

Jeff.

Yep, assuming that level right wrist, the flying wedges will stay in place, and the rotation will happen properly, but the rest of the machine needs to react to that move (zone 1), or you'd end up off plane.

[O.B.Left]

You write-: "I used to turn the shoulders and extend both arms , long and low, with the triangle maintained."

When you state "extend both arms" I think that it correctly describes the mental picture that many golfers have in their mind when they think of the one piece takeaway. However, as Yoda accurately demonstrated in his DVD lesson, the right forearm at address must be held in a certain manner with respect to the left arm, so that the right elbow can start to fold and the right forearm can start to fan (as if performing a right clap hand action) very soon after the right forearm takeaway commences. The main purpose of the takeaway is to simply carry one's hands (and clubshaft) to the "correct" end-backswing position where the left arm flying wedge and right arm flying wedge are correctly aligned (and the entire power package assembly is correctly loaded).

Standing stiffly with extended arms leads to all sorts of incorrect backswing actions - like this frequently performed one piece takeaway action that leads to reverse pivoting.



Jeff.

Yes I used to do all of these things. My hair was a little longer back in the 70's though. No quite so heavy. More of a plaid to the pants, visor. Wilson Staff tour blades, white Jones carry bag, Wilson Pro Staff ball, footjoys with the kilty tongues. Maybe I should dig up a photo.


This swing gave me nice tour of the left side of every golf course.

OB