Daryl,
Ground forces need to be trained and can't be applied physically, time the message gets from the brain to the feet the golf swing motion has been executed.
Essentially should be applied the first move in the downswing.
We played with the idea of try this physical and measured ourselves and tons of others doesn't work needs to be trained.
Daryl I may up set a few people here. Has a Golf coach ever studied biomecahnics or how human body works in the golfswing.
No.
So they don't know how to teach how the hips are suppose to move effectively.
Truth is they are going on their belief system of how they think the pivot works.
I appologise here I'm a straight shooter and speak the truth.
This "starts from the ground up" mantra has always been a puzzle to me.
I have spent hours at address waiting for something to happen "from the ground up" and I would still be out there now but for the fact that I found out the club only moves once the hands that are holding it are put in motion!
I do appreciate that the ground has a part to play in the swing but surely this is only in relation to the opposing/resisting of the force applied in the down swing.
You will get it immediately by making a swing on a rotary chair, which disconnects the ground to your feet.
__________________ Yani Tseng, Go! Go! Go! Yani Tseng Did It Again! YOU load and sustain the "LAG", during which the "LAW" releases it, ideally beyond impact.
"Sustain (Yang/陽) the lag (Yin/陰)" is "the unification of Ying and Yang" (陰陽合一).
The "LAW" creates the "effect", which is the "motion" or "feel", with the "cause", which is the "intent" or "command".
"Lag" is the secret of golf, passion is the secret of life.
Think as a golfer, execute like a robot.
Rotate, twist, spin, turn. Bend the shaft.
The body reacts (Action) to what the brain orders (Intention) and moves the club and the ball, regardless of if you know the process.
You eat and the body takes care the rest, during which there is not much you can do about it.
Eat it right and you get healthy. Give the right order and you get happy result.
__________________ Yani Tseng, Go! Go! Go! Yani Tseng Did It Again! YOU load and sustain the "LAG", during which the "LAW" releases it, ideally beyond impact.
"Sustain (Yang/陽) the lag (Yin/陰)" is "the unification of Ying and Yang" (陰陽合一).
The "LAW" creates the "effect", which is the "motion" or "feel", with the "cause", which is the "intent" or "command".
"Lag" is the secret of golf, passion is the secret of life.
Think as a golfer, execute like a robot.
Rotate, twist, spin, turn. Bend the shaft.
From what I've read on the WWW, and viewed on You-Tube (search: Golf Biomechanics) it seems that ground forces are used to restrict the Feet, knees and Hips so that the Torso provides much of the Rotational motion necessary to provide Power/Speed. No axis tilt, X Factor, Shoulders lead the Hips post Impact.
Example:
It also seems that none of the researchers have classic golf swing training and I doubt that any of them have heard of TGM. The researchers are soccer players.
There are a handful of very accomplished players you'll find under the Topic of Biomechanics, but it seems that they're being studied or have modified components to their Swing. Otherwise there aren't explanations of-what they're doing different than before or how they benefit.
The more I research the more it seems as if people study the Golf Swing to get their "Degree" in Biomechanics rather than actually contributing to Golf Mechanics. Most seem to be using Biometric Terminology to explain why some players can hit the ball farther than other players. What is obviously and painfully lacking is the mention of "Scoring". Golf is still about scoring, isn't it?
Another painfully obvious observation is the lack of any research methodology that can produce useful results. For example, some compare the Downstrokes of various Golfers to determine the point of maximum speed in the Downswing. The golfer with the Highest speed closer to the ball wins. Correlations between Shoulder Speed and Clubhead Speed are compared and the Winner of the test is said to have had a more optimal Shoulder turn. Garbage. But, collect your Diploma and get out of the way for the next class of Biomechanic Graduates.
Oh, and the new Term: NeuroMechanics and NeuroMechanic Reprogramming. I can't wait. Pass Universal Healthcare, then wait in line for "Neuromechanical reprogramming" before your next scheduled Tee-Time.
I guess that all of our golf swings fall under the Study of human motion and Biomechanics. I kind of get the feeling that we're all being reclassified and categorized "Biomechanics: Golf Swing" as opposed to "Biomechanics: Tennis Swing". So, I'm a "Biomechanical Golfer".
Bioengine must swing very different than those I've witnessed during my admittedly short investigation.
I wonder if his long TGM training and understanding of Golf Mechanics ("Geometry and Physics", or "Alignments and Work") have somehow adapted some of the Biometrics recommended motion to fit his own way of swinging?
Is there a Video of "BioEngine's" Swing we can study? Until I see that swing, for me anyway, further conversation about BioMechanics is a waste of time. "Show me the Money".
Daryl,
check out www.welch-e.com.au and then look in shop.
Go for your life here's tons of education for you.
If you would like to ask questions email me.
Email scott@welch-e.com.au
My NUMBER ONE question to any biomechanic type would be . . . . do they understand how the club works . . . . if they don't understand the face and the plane . . . . no need to talk about it. If you ain't got a grasp of the 3 functions and the line of compression . . . all the motion stuff can be compromised in it's ultimate objective in my opinion. You still gotta start with the clubface and ball and work the components from there.
Of course that being said . . . plenty of people have got really good based on some goofball pga manual instruction . . . .so who knows.
My NUMBER ONE question to any biomechanic type would be . . . . do they understand how the club works . . . . if they don't understand the face and the plane . . . . no need to talk about it. If you ain't got a grasp of the 3 functions and the line of compression . . . all the motion stuff can be compromised in it's ultimate objective in my opinion. You still gotta start with the clubface and ball and work the components from there.
Of course that being said . . . plenty of people have got really good based on some goofball pga manual instruction . . . .so who knows.
Sounds a little like what TGM as a company was trying to accomplish with the Bio-Mechanical manuals. Good stuff for physicians who understand the golf swing. It all has to start with the little yellow book or they've got nada. Just my opinion.
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
What does Homer base his work on Newton's Laws.
In Golf Biomechanics we apply Newton's Laws.
Homer talks in mecahanical aspects in hinges and levers, coming from an engineering back ground. Homer has great information.
Homer has theories and very good theories, although he doesn't tell you application or how to train or how to make the theories work in practice.
So how do you teach TGM and how do you apply it?
In order for geometry work you need physics.
A plane can't fly without an engine.
Sure there are biomechanic companies which just do pure research.
There are also others which look at how movement patterns work and research ways to build programs how to train the body how to create correct movement patterns.
Ok how do you expect someone to get on plane and achieve a flat left wrist if they have a huge lateral slide. Club can't move on plane if it has no axis to move around,Homer says a pivot.
Which is your body.
If your arms are decelerating due to the lateral slide.
How do you prevent them from breaking down and scoping.
Teach them plane line and educate hands? when you have no pivot.(your body)
Or how about simply teach them how to create better lower body mechanics.
Create ground forces and hip rotation so they get rid of the lateral slide. Then they have a pivot,then you can get the club on plane and achieve a flat left wrist.
Here's my question how can you teach someone golf when you don't understand how the human body functions. how your body moves, how your body creates speed, how the muscles work and what your body limitations are so you don't get injuries and so you don't teach people to move your body in ways it's not designed to.
My question is how can you apply homers work. The Pivot(human Body) is the foundation of homers work. So how can you apply homers work when you don't understand how the human body (PIVOT) works.
Good luck, I'd been around TGM all my life and taught TGM as well. I soon learn the that we need a pivot.
I hope one day you all come to realize this as well for the better of the game we all love. The Game of Golf
Last edited by bioengine : 08-03-2009 at 11:01 AM.
What does Homer base his work on Newton's Laws.
...Good luck, I'd been around TGM all my life and taught TGM as well. I soon learn the that we need a pivot.
I hope one day you all come to realise this as well for the better of the game we all love. The Game of Golf
Good luck to you as well bioengine. With your passion you will be very successful.
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
What does Homer base his work on Newton's Laws.
In Golf Biomechanics we apply Newton's Laws.
Homer talks in mecahanical aspects in hinges and levers, coming from an engineering back ground. Homer has great information.
Homer has theories and very good theories, although he doesn't tell you application or how to train or how to make the theories work in practice.
So how do you teach TGM and how do you apply it?
In order for geometry work you need physics.
A plane can't fly without an engine.
Sure there are biomechanic companies which just do pure research.
There are also others which look at how movement patterns work and research ways to build programs how to train the body how to create correct movement patterns.
Ok how do you expect someone to get on plane and achieve a flat left wrist if they have a huge lateral slide. Club can't move on plane if it has no axis to move around,Homer says a pivot.
Which is your body.
If your arms are decelerating due to the lateral slide.
How do you prevent them from breaking down and scoping.
Teach them plane line and educate hands? when you have no pivot.(your body)
Or how about simply teach them how to create better lower body mechanics.
Create ground forces and hip rotation so they get rid of the lateral slide. Then they have a pivot,then you can get the club on plane and achieve a flat left wrist.
Here's my question how can you teach someone golf when you don't understand how the human body functions. how your body moves, how your body creates speed, how the muscles work and what your body limitations are so you don't get injuries and so you don't teach people to move your body in ways it's not designed to.
My question is how can you apply homers work. The Pivot(human Body) is the foundation of homers work. So how can you apply homers work when you don't understand how the human body (PIVOT) works.
Good luck, I'd been around TGM all my life and taught TGM as well. I soon learn the that we need a pivot.
I hope one day you all come to realize this as well for the better of the game we all love. The Game of Golf
OK so a couple of things here . . . .
1. I'd say the first piece again is how the club works. There are plenty of people with crappy pivots that can still play golf because instinctively they know how the face and the club works. But I will agree with you that a functioning pivot certainly is important.
2. Sure we want to understand something about how the body works agreed. So let us define a few parameters to again focus the discussion. How much slide? How much turn? And we talk about that . . . in relation to what? The ball? Also . . . . what plane? The plane angle requires different components in the pivot wouldn't you say? Is there an "optimum" plane from a biomechanics standpoint? What type of shot are you trying to hit? Does that have different pivot requirements?
Pass Universal Healthcare, then wait in line for "Neuromechanical reprogramming" before your next scheduled Tee-Time. 
Linear Mode
