Bucket,
We focus on two things with the hips ,creating hip rotational speed and stabilizing the lower body at impact.
The hips are designed to rotate perpendicular to the spine. In tennis, baseball and golf the hip rotation is the same.In all three sports the body have similar movement patterns and create body segments speeds the same. The kinetic link is the same. They all use 6-m-1 starting from the ground up, the two factors which drive 6-M-1 is Conservation of momentum and muscular loading.
6-m-1 is how the body wants to naturally move and naturally transfers speed from one segment to another and finally transfered to the club or bat.Muscular loading is the engine which creates the speed in each body segment.
We use all types of techniques to train movement patterns and depends on the data to what type of training we provide to each athlete. Every athlete is different and has different movement issues. So once we measure their movement patterns then we devise a program for that athlete.
We don't teach people on practice fairway or striking a golf ball.
We train them how to develop the right movement patterns and when they play golf this naturally happens. Once your body learns 6-m-1 this becomes automatic this is natural way the body wants to move and create speed.
I'm certainly interested in the excercises you use for sure. But I think one thing that we have to keep in mind in studying the similarities of the motions is the amount of precision required in the sport. I was talking to Eddie Cox a little about this. Sure there are some similarities in baseball with regards to the movement . . . HOWVER . . . in baseball you can hit a ball to left or right field and still hit a "good shot".
It would be nice to have a discussion of the exercises you use if it's appropriate with Lynn and you are willing to discuss. I would be very interested to learn more.
The Physics vs. Geometry argument has been a little out of Focus from the start.
Bold by Daryl:
Quote:
14-0 ……Geometry and Physics must be clearly differentiated. “Alignments” (relationships) are Geometry. “Work” (energy) is Physics (Chapter 2). Together the constitute “Mechanics” – structurally “fixed” geometry and physics (1-L). “Feel” is the body’s equivalent to structuring and its foundation is the Educated Hands (5-0).
Geometry being identical for every Pattern (1-L-20), it is your Computer’s basic program. All subsequent programming must agree with that basic. Hitting or Swinging and their special Mechanics dictate the individual’s basic TOTAL MOTION (12-1, 2, 3). So the primary programming routine for your Computer must maintain the Feel of your basic procedure.
Quote:
13-0 Stroke Component Variations are not all 100% interchangeable with the rest of their category by their very definition. Some are interchangeable only in an awkward way – or within certain limits – or for certain special purposes. Incompatible Components require correction, compensation or compassion.
Non-interchangeable Stroke Components must be properly compensated or eliminated. Incompatible components are faulty construction – mechanical improprieties, not legitimate variation.
For instance - Zero Hip Action is the Hip Action that is compatible with Zero Pivot. Again – Straight Line Power Package Delivery is not possible with the Shiftless Hip Turn. Again – Pull Stroke (Left Arm Swing) rules out the use of Radial Acceleration (10-19-A)…..
From Homers Notes:
Quote:
Educated Hands are those that can feel the resistance of motion -- CLUBHEAD lag. If the #3 pressure point is lost then "LAG" can not be sustained. The hands must control the pivot! Have the #3 pressure point completely replace the CLUBHEAD, take #3 to the ball. The heart and soul of G.O.L.F. Is developing a swing based on the hands. Teach Hinge Action without Body Motion.
Pivot components should ideally match Delivery Lines with either "ARC" or "ANGLE" of Approach procedures. Starting any other way leaves the Delivery Line to the right of the target line -- in other words, outside in.
I have enjoyed biomechanics posts but find them difficult to follow as written. I particular was interested in this post
What they don't understand is why you create separation between the hips and upper body on the downswing. And how you achieve this either.
It's not important to how much your turn your hips in relation to your upper body.The reason you create separation is to elongate the muscles group from the hips to upperbody. The elongation stretches the muscle groups. This also releases a chemical energy which makes the muscles fire. To activate this you only initially need to turn the hips 5 to 10 degrees. Important, once you created separation the lower body must stabilize, so you can you fire the upper body straight away.
If you maintain separation for two long the chemical energy turns into heat. It must be loaded and fired straight away or you lose loading and firing of the muscles.
I remember years ago it was suggested that those golfers who used too much right hand immobilize the right hand and arm by contracting and holding the muscles for 10 seconds several times before hitting. This used up the chemical and therefore the right side couldn't fire. a cure for hooking.
It would be nice if someone could summarize this thread succintly for an old guy like me. There have been many comments about biomechanics but not much meat shared. Is it priveleged information or available elsewhere for a fee.
I have enjoyed biomechanics posts but find them difficult to follow as written. I particular was interested in this post
What they don't understand is why you create separation between the hips and upper body on the downswing. And how you achieve this either.
It's not important to how much your turn your hips in relation to your upper body.The reason you create separation is to elongate the muscles group from the hips to upperbody. The elongation stretches the muscle groups. This also releases a chemical energy which makes the muscles fire. To activate this you only initially need to turn the hips 5 to 10 degrees. Important, once you created separation the lower body must stabilize, so you can you fire the upper body straight away.
If you maintain separation for two long the chemical energy turns into heat. It must be loaded and fired straight away or you lose loading and firing of the muscles.
I remember years ago it was suggested that those golfers who used too much right hand immobilize the right hand and arm by contracting and holding the muscles for 10 seconds several times before hitting. This used up the chemical and therefore the right side couldn't fire. a cure for hooking.
It would be nice if someone could summarize this thread succintly for an old guy like me. There have been many comments about biomechanics but not much meat shared. Is it priveleged information or available elsewhere for a fee.
I just read your post and didn't catch that 5 to 10 degree thing . . . . My question is where? On the backstroke? Downstroke? Another thing would be what plane angle are we talking about?
As to that deal about contracting and holding muscles for ten seconds . . . I've heard about doing that for some other stuff . . . and it wasn't for no hooking (well maybe it was???). But if people think that's gonna cure a hook . . . . they need to head up to Maine and meet one Mr. Olberdingleberry . . . There is no address but you'll know your close by the distinct stench in the air. Nothing like the smell of goat turds in the morning . . . .
I just read your post and didn't catch that 5 to 10 degree thing . . . . My question is where? On the backstroke? Downstroke? Another thing would be what plane angle are we talking about?
First let me clarify my definite student status on this. But this is my understanding.
The 5 to 10 degrees refers to the downswing. What is being referred to is that when the forces created against the ground at the beginning of the downswing cause the hips to start turning back they actually only need to turn a few degrees to begin the kinetic link. They will then stop, and even counter torque - ie reverse direction momentarily - which will pass the momentum created up to the torso. This force is transferred through the stretch created along the muscles of the torso from the left hip (rh golfers) to the right shoulder. These muscles stretch and then fire (this is a short stretch cycle) creating rotational speed in the torso and shoulders.
Some things that have helped my to understand this:
Think of Short Stretch Cycles in regard to jumping as high as you can. First you dip down a few inches and then explode upward. This is a SSC. If you drop and pause you lose that energy. If you drop down as low as your flexibility will allow you wont jump nearly as high. Yet in much golf instruction I see pausing and going close to or even to your max flexibility. Biomechanically these don't create the best conditions to create maximum speed in balance.
The ground forces can easily be understood if you stand on a chair that turns and try and swing a club. These forces are what actually drives your hips around. They are the equal and opposite reaction. Similarly if you move this principle up the chain the equal and opposite reaction when you slow your hips after they've moved back at the start of the downswing will be for your torso to rotate (because your feet are still gripping the ground so the force cannot go that way. Similarly when you slow your shoulders (as Bio says, as they come back into alignment with your hips) that momentum will be passed through your shoulder joint into your arms. Finally your arms will slow through the impact zone and all that energy will be released into the clubshaft which will accelarate massively.
None of these things can be controlled consciously. Try and throw a ball consciously, maybe by consciously managing how and when your hips turn back on the downswing. I bet you don't throw it that well. But there are exercises we can do to improve these actions. In my case some of them are very golf like involving a club and impact bag. But they are never an actual golf swing and I have to be told time and again not to try and "do" these exercises at the course! )
I am writing as an interested amateur. Bio is the expert. But perhaps coming from an amateur as opposed to a technical background I can make this stuff a little more comprehensible to the other amateurs out there!
First let me clarify my definite student status on this. But this is my understanding.
The 5 to 10 degrees refers to the downswing. What is being referred to is that when the forces created against the ground at the beginning of the downswing cause the hips to start turning back they actually only need to turn a few degrees to begin the kinetic link. They will then stop, and even counter torque - ie reverse direction momentarily - which will pass the momentum created up to the torso. This force is transferred through the stretch created along the muscles of the torso from the left hip (rh golfers) to the right shoulder. These muscles stretch and then fire (this is a short stretch cycle) creating rotational speed in the torso and shoulders.
Some things that have helped my to understand this:
Think of Short Stretch Cycles in regard to jumping as high as you can. First you dip down a few inches and then explode upward. This is a SSC. If you drop and pause you lose that energy. If you drop down as low as your flexibility will allow you wont jump nearly as high. Yet in much golf instruction I see pausing and going close to or even to your max flexibility. Biomechanically these don't create the best conditions to create maximum speed in balance.
The ground forces can easily be understood if you stand on a chair that turns and try and swing a club. These forces are what actually drives your hips around. They are the equal and opposite reaction. Similarly if you move this principle up the chain the equal and opposite reaction when you slow your hips after they've moved back at the start of the downswing will be for your torso to rotate (because your feet are still gripping the ground so the force cannot go that way. Similarly when you slow your shoulders (as Bio says, as they come back into alignment with your hips) that momentum will be passed through your shoulder joint into your arms. Finally your arms will slow through the impact zone and all that energy will be released into the clubshaft which will accelarate massively.
None of these things can be controlled consciously. Try and throw a ball consciously, maybe by consciously managing how and when your hips turn back on the downswing. I bet you don't throw it that well. But there are exercises we can do to improve these actions. In my case some of them are very golf like involving a club and impact bag. But they are never an actual golf swing and I have to be told time and again not to try and "do" these exercises at the course! )
I am writing as an interested amateur. Bio is the expert. But perhaps coming from an amateur as opposed to a technical background I can make this stuff a little more comprehensible to the other amateurs out there!
Very nice . . . thanks . . . . So question WHEN do you jump from the top? Start down? Impact? And how would you describe the jump? Straight up? To the left? Also . . . . How would you jump AND and keep the proper trajectory of the right shoulder and not get the club moving off plane?
Got any descriptions of the exercises or is that double top secret stuff?
Very nice . . . thanks . . . . So question WHEN do you jump from the top? Start down? Impact? And how would you describe the jump? Straight up? To the left? Also . . . . How would you jump AND and keep the proper trajectory of the right shoulder and not get the club moving off plane?
Got any descriptions of the exercises or is that double top secret stuff?
Thanks . . . nice thread going here.
Ummm ... not sure if you're being funny or if I'm completely missing the point!?! You don't jump in a golf swing. I was using what your leg muscles do when you do a standing leap as an example of an SSC. It's not an SSC that you would actually involve in your golf swing!
As I understand it the SSCs that you activate in your golf swing are across the front of your torso and in the back of your left shoulder (and maybe in front of your right shoulder). There may be others that I don't know about (there is a lot that I don't know about!) All of the Short Stretch Cycles happen in the downswing only, as best I understand it. They start from when your centre of mass starts to move back to the left, which I suspect is best to happen before your arms complete their backswing.
So the SSCs themselves. The torso is activated when your hips rotate back to the left (right if you're a lefty). The hips move before the torso/shoulders which creates "separation" and stretches the muscles as they run from your right shoulder to your left hip. In a proper movement pattern your hips would only need to move a few degrees (so a 10 degree movement would see your hips turn one thirty-sixth of the total 360 degree circle). They hips should then stop (this is one of those things that you can never do consciously and so needs to be trained). This would create the separation and stretch. The muscles across your torso would then fire (this is the short stretch cycle in action). They would shorten which causes your torso and shoulders to turn rapidly around your fairly stable spine.
As you can imagine the turning of your shoulders creates another strech in the muscles at the back of your left shoulder. This is because the arm and club will not immediately move at the same speed as the shoulders (in the same way the shoulders did not immediately move at the same time at the hips). If you think about it this is a process of creating and releasing lag. Lag between the hips and shoulders. Then lag between the shoulder and arms. Then lag between the arms and clubshaft. This is good TGM!
So now we have a stretch at the back of the left shoulder. Proper biomechanics mean that these muscles quickly fire in another SSC and accelarate the arm, dragging the club along for the ride.
The final piece is when the hands stop around the bottom of their arc. This releases the clubshaft and all that lovely built up lag into the back of the ball, sending it flying long and straight down the fairway. Beautiful!
The reengagement of your hips and momentum will then pull your whole body around to the finish.
)
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