I agree with much of this but not that deceleration is needed to transfer momentum to the next acceleration stage.
I feel that my own Pivot supplies all of the Work. I also feel that the work that the Pivot provides is separate but synchronized with the Downstroke Acceleration sequence of my Power Package.
My Pivot components don't slow or stop and are sequenced to provide continuous motion and power to the Swing. My Hips lead and power the Shoulders throughout the Downstroke. My Shoulders trail my hips at least until the Finish Swivel.
Foot, knee and Hip Actions are sequenced. Keep in mind that Foot loading is different for Straight and Circle Delivery Paths. So, the Pivot will look different, sequence differently and provide different work. Foot loading is vastly important. Without sensing and sequencing the Ground pressures through my feet and allowing my feet to increase and decrease these pressures, It's difficult to move the Hips very far and it's not possible for the Hips to drive the shoulders through Impact and beyond. Ground Pressures are very powerful and yet can be very sensitive and delicate around the greens. The Sequence doesn't change but the pressures and spacing and pacing of the components changes to fit the shot at hand. It's almost unconscious.
All of this was taught to me by Yoda, years ago.
Daryl,
How do you know, unless your have been tested to measures your body speed etc how do you know if they are accelerating and decelerating.
You can't no one can.
Myself I can't even feel these events occurring, the body is moving so fast you can't sense acceleration and deceleration occurring.
Daryl your going on your beliefs here. here's how conservation of momentum work
Formula M1*V1=-M2*V2
example
The above equation is one statement of the law of momentum conservation. In a collision, the momentum change of object 1 is equal to and opposite of the momentum change of object 2. That is, the momentum lost by object 1 is equal to the momentum gained by object 2. In most collisions between two objects, one object slows down and loses momentum while the other object speeds up and gains momentum. If object 1 loses 75 units of momentum, then object 2 gains 75 units of momentum. Yet, the total momentum of the two objects (object 1 plus object 2) is the same before the collision as it is after the collision. The total momentum of the system (the collection of two objects) is conserved.
In golf you need 6-M-1, conservation of momentum and muscular loading which fires each body segment to continue to create velocity(speed) until the distal end speed reaches the club.
Each body segment must accel/decl to transfer speed.
No beliefs or opinions, pure physics and measured science to back the theories.
Daryl, I could understand why your not doing this in your golf swing, if you were accelerating and decelerating each body segment you wouldn't be here you would be out on tour winning.
We all would be out there winning LOL.
As I say to everyday to those who argue, where is there measured science and research to back their beliefs and where is there measured science and research to prove us wrong. And what back ground or understanding do they have in biomechanics and movement patterns. SO they stop and think for minute so they open up their minds to other avneues.
Although the laws of physics all the biomechanists are on the same page, they all agree on newton's laws, conservation of momentum and the kinetic link. This is applied in all bat and ball sport.Not only golf we work with athlete's in many other sports and has tens of thousands athletes data. Years of research involved.
As I said no beliefs or opinions, we have research, measured science and Pure physics.
Last edited by bioengine : 08-08-2009 at 05:18 AM.
2-K GENERATION OF ANGULAR MOTION Angular Motion is the result of at least two divergent forces. Such as, -A. Centripetal Force (the Lever Assemblies 6-A) diverting Linear Force (Right Arm Thrust 6-B-1) into a rotating motion (Hitting 10-19-A). Or – B. Turning its axis (the Body 2-M-4) to spin a flywheel – the Lever Assemblies (Swinging 10-19-C).
Rotation induces a Throw-Out action, pulling the centers of gravity of every moveable component, In-Line and On Plane with its axis or center, whether or not they were originally In-Line or On Plane. With a short radius it can accelerate easily, and quickly acquire considerable Angular Velocity. If a portion of this mass moves to a longer radius, the slowing effect (6-C-2-B) must be computed on the basis of the total mass AS LONG AS THE PORTION IS BEING PROPELLED BY THE TOTAL. That is – the slowdown would be in the same ratio that the portion has to the whole – the original central mass. This “Transfer of Momentum” process (10-19-C) eliminates Release Deceleration (6-F-0) but not Impact Deceleration (2-M-1). This Throw-Out action is termed herein as “Centrifugal Acceleration” to indicate that Centrifugal Force (Centrifugal Reaction), not muscle, is propelling the Secondary Lever Assembly (the Golf Club) into Impact. So Swingers are totally dependent on their skill at manipulating Centrifugal Force while Hitters are not. But study 4-D, 6-B-3-0, 6-R-0 and 7-2.
Compare the Primary Lever Assembly (6-A-2) with the common flail. While the “swingle” is seeking its “in-line” (full extension ) relation with the “handle” (catching up) there is “Centrifugal Acceleration.” When it becomes “in-line” (caught up) this settles into “Centrifugal (Angular) Momentum” (Full Extension). If it passes its “in-line” relation, it again seeks its “in-line” relation (backs up) and “Centrifugal Deceleration” sets in with a huge power loss. These three phases demonstrate what is termed herein “The Law of the Flail” – the Swingers primary concern.
Bold by Daryl
Have you ever seen a Pre-Stressed Golf Shaft going into Impact?
Quote:
If the Pressure Point pressure that produced the initial Clubshaft flex is maintained it will maintain the flex also. So the pressure will be a steady smooth Thrust form the entire Power Package Assembly, and will produce a constant rate of acceleration of the Primary Lever Assembly. If the Pivot moves the Right Shoulder at the same speed as the Power Package – or Primary Lever Assembly – the Accumulators will not be Released by this action until the Right Elbow can straighten. Even then the Clubhead Lag is still maintained – it has NO Release Point.
Where does the energy come from to accelarate the clubhead past your hands if your hands do not slow down? Newton and Gallileo pretty much nailed that you can't just create energy out of nothing. If your hands accelarate to top speed and then don't decelarate until after you've hit the ball then the clubhead cannot accelarate faster than the hands do and so you wont get a release.
You can't say that CF just does it. Put a free swinging arm on a wheel and keep spinning the wheel at a fixed speed - the arm will never catch up. It will only catch up if you decelarate the wheel. This is pretty basic physics.
Or am I missing something? You can't just take something someone says as gospel if the basic physics don't stack up. There must be something else added - so what do you understand that is?
Maybe someone could post a video of a functional swing where the hands do not slow down at/towards impact? I've been looking at the tube and I can't find one, certainly happens for Norman, Woods, Hogan, Ogilvy, Gay etc etc from what I can tell, even without state of the art measuring equipment.
Maybe Newton never played so his laws don't apply here?
Maybe someone could post a video of a functional swing where the hands do not slow down at/towards impact? I've been looking at the tube and I can't find one, certainly happens for Norman, Woods, Hogan, Ogilvy, Gay etc etc from what I can tell, even without state of the art measuring equipment.
Maybe Newton never played so his laws don't apply here?
Here is one of a hundred available. Look at Tiger on swings where he uses a sit-down procedure. Look at Sam Snead. Look at Ben Hogan. Look at any golfer using a Sit-Down procedure. That's the Tip off of a Sequenced Pivot. Following the sit-down is a Hip Rotation which drives the right shoulder, which drives the left shoulder, which pulls the left arm wedge through impact. Don't look at Freddy Couples (Circle path).
ALSO: Look for pro's that move their heads slightly to the right during the Backstroke and tend to keep it there. They are keeping weight on the right side and using ground pressures to crank the Hips around.
Swinging with the Right Arm off the club will help train a sequenced pivot. Learn to move the Left Arm Wedge with your Pivot. Don't move the club with arm or shoulder muscles. It's also enlightening to find that swinging with the Right Hand only on the Clubshaft, that your right arm is helpless unless you can lock the elbow into a stiff lever. Even then, the Right Shoulder has too much play to handle the power applied by the Hip Action. But, Both arms together, with Extensor action, (Power Package) can be violently Propelled with little physical effort. The Hands can direct all of this force.
When your Pivot can Power the Swing this way, you will no longer have "Blackout" during the Downstroke. When the Arms and Hands no longer apply any force to move the Hands, you will imediately sense the Tracing of the #3 Pressure Point. You will immediately begin to keep the #3 pressure Points relationship with the Plane Line. Educated Hands. Hands Controlled Pivot.
You will Float load, Drive Load, Drag Load at will. You'll hit draws or fades with the slightest Plane line, target line and stance line manipulations.
Watch Ben Doyle. All Pivot. Sequenced Pivot, super Hip Action. But he never tells you "How to". Ben thinks that everyone already knows. Ben says: "Load it, Store it, and then Shoot it". And people stand there and listen but are a little shy to ask: "What do you mean by "Shoot it"?
I love Greg's Swing. He talks about constant motion and swinging faster will make you swing slower. I know I have stood behind Ben Doyle with my hand on his shoulders and they seem to be in a constant smooth motion. So.....
Feels are certainly different from reality.
I enjoy bio's contributions but here in the mountains of the carolinas I have no access to experts. So as I do forearm takeaway to the top I do not need to concern myself with anything but loading 2 and 3. Now once I am near top I need to create just the right amount of stretch in my shoulders when I reverse direction and sit down. I do not need to torque up my shoulders on the backswing. Now once I am sitting down balanced and "centered" as Ben says the shoulders will unwind and my hands will go down and foward releasing what I have stored shooting or throwing out at the ball. Now to get to finish and catch the dog by the tail I have to get the shoulders around and foward ending up on balance over my left foot. Now hopefull you biomechanic boys can tweek this with your knowledge. Certainly you can distill it down to a few paragraphs. I am a physician and even though you said it would take 50 pages, certainly you could distill it down for us. Greg teachs students constant motion. Lynn teaches karate chop, taking out the plane line, throw down and out from the wrist. All of these thoughts have worked well for me. Because i am intense I tend to overdo. that is why the SCC stuff you mention resonates. You can't squat to low to jump best. You can't over torque on the back swing. You can't hold the contraction too long etc.
I love Greg's Swing. He talks about constant motion and swinging faster will make you swing slower. I know I have stood behind Ben Doyle with my hand on his shoulders and they seem to be in a constant smooth motion. So.....
Feels are certainly different from reality.
I enjoy bio's contributions but here in the mountains of the carolinas I have no access to experts. So as I do forearm takeaway to the top I do not need to concern myself with anything but loading 2 and 3. Now once I am near top I need to create just the right amount of stretch in my shoulders when I reverse direction and sit down. I do not need to torque up my shoulders on the backswing. Now once I am sitting down balanced and "centered" as Ben says the shoulders will unwind and my hands will go down and foward releasing what I have stored shooting or throwing out at the ball. Now to get to finish and catch the dog by the tail I have to get the shoulders around and foward ending up on balance over my left foot. Now hopefull you biomechanic boys can tweek this with your knowledge. Certainly you can distill it down to a few paragraphs. I am a physician and even though you said it would take 50 pages, certainly you could distill it down for us. Greg teachs students constant motion. Lynn teaches karate chop, taking out the plane line, throw down and out from the wrist. All of these thoughts have worked well for me. Because i am intense I tend to overdo. that is why the SCC stuff you mention resonates. You can't squat to low to jump best. You can't over torque on the back swing. You can't hold the contraction too long etc.
Dave,
In Physics there is theory which I have been speaking of.
Theory is the understanding. Essentially what is important is how do you put the theory into practice.
As I have said previously is how do you train the body how to create the physics.
First step is to be tested to find out what your movement patterns are. Then you can build a program to train your how to create the right movement patterns.
I can continue to speak about theory for ever although people still won't be able to apply this in practice. It's not something you can go to the practice fairway and try to achieve.
You need to be given a program to train your body how to create the right movement patterns.
I speak to guys about TGM, they know the book exceptional well, but in practice they can't break a 100. Listen to them speak they sound like they can break par.
What is important is learning how to train your body how to put the theory into practice.
Where does the energy come from to accelarate the clubhead past your hands if your hands do not slow down? Newton and Gallileo pretty much nailed that you can't just create energy out of nothing.
Pivot: Hip Action
The Pivot has a Sequence in Swings using a Straight Line Delivery Path.
Left Heel lowering: Accelerates the Right Shoulder
Sit-down: Accelerates the Arms/Hands (Power Package)
Hip Action: Accelerates (Drives) the Hands through Release and Impact.
Originally Posted by Weetbix
If your hands accelarate to top speed and then don't decelarate until after you've hit the ball then the clubhead cannot accelarate faster than the hands do and so you wont get a release. You can't say that CF just does it. Put a free swinging arm on a wheel and keep spinning the wheel at a fixed speed - the arm will never catch up. It will only catch up if you decelarate the wheel. This is pretty basic physics.
When your hands approach release, they change direction; from down to forward, which induces throw-out.
Originally Posted by Weetbix
Or am I missing something? You can't just take something someone says as gospel if the basic physics don't stack up. There must be something else added - so what do you understand that is?
Have you ever seen a Pre-Stressed Golf Shaft going into Impact?
Daryl,
ok your quoting out of the book, So next question how do you achieve all this? Physics training the body to create the right physics.
Of course I have seen a pre stressed shaft, I've worked with some top line golfers and also some world class golfers and taught them how to create shaft flex all the way to impact using pure physics.
Even taught myself how to do it myself.
we put sensors on the shaft and can tell you in which direction force is moving at the ball x,y and z. x is at the ball, y is up and down, z towards or away from your body.
I've seen tons of data with people without a pre stressed shaft and taught these people how to load the shaft and maintain shaft flex.
I can tell you how they achieve and can tell you why people can't achieve shaft flex. Again easy answer all to do with having good physics or not.
Regardless the theory isn't even important , what is important is how to train and teach people how to achieve physics. Which is what I do.
so his laws don't apply here?
Ben thinks that everyone already knows. 
Hybrid Mode
