Bio Mechanics

[Weetbix]

BioMechanics, I appreciate your effort on this topic, which hopefully can be helpful to the field.

My only question, so far, to you, with due respect, is:

How close is (especially) your swing (or those you trained) match with those you described, presumably you know what to do or apply for the best?

To me, what you mentioned, including body movements, sequences, biomechanics and so on, are "Effects", like all the mechanics under the hood of a car. Once engineerred, they react faithfully to what the drive do, pressing the acceleration padel or the break or steering the steering wheel for example, to function.

The human body is basically well engineerred by the creator. They function by reacting, in a naturally coordinated way, to what the brain tells them to do, which is the "Cause", like the driver's act. You don't really need to mess around with what under the hood to drive a car.

The body, the club and the ball moves according to the physical "Law", which you don't want to mess around, either. More control (effect) means more manipulation and potentionally more interference. Instead of finding the "Effect", which can be very informative, I prefer to find the "Cause", the acceleration paddel, the steering wheel, the gear shifter, the break paddel and so on, and let the car do what it is supposed to. Afterall, I'm not sure if those golfers of your model knew what's going on in their bodies while making a swing or a shot. They got to "do something" for sure and the point is what it is, which is unlikely what you saw. How can you see what's going on in one's head?

I love to see what's going on in the body, the club and the ball during a swing. But, to make one, I prefer to do the "Cause".

If you are talking about the unconscious mind I think you may be right. And what Biomechanic teaches is exercises that train your unconscious movement patterns to become more efficient. The only other way I have heard to train these is through consciously repeating a mechanical action to create "muscle memory". This is a slow process requiring repetition after repetition.

I have no idea why the training works. I have done very little training yet it has had an almost instant and noticable impact, both to my swing and my results. Biomechanic trains the causes that lead to clubhead lag, that lead to a flat left wrist and that lead to an on plane swing. I haven't worked on any of these effects. Not one. Instead I am being trained in what causes them.

To apply your analogy a good race driver does not think about the pedals, the wheel, or the brake. A good driver sees the line they want to drive on and their body responds with the right mechanical activities to put the car on that line at the highest possible speed. It is learner drivers who have to think about gears, pedals and wheels - and they don't drive very well.

You cannot find out what happens in a top level golfers mind, except that they will tell you "very little". I remember an article where they measured Greg Norman's pre shot routine. They found that his bad shots almost always has a pre shot routine that is slightly longer than normal. His best shots come when he goes into autopilot. And you cannot be taught autopilot from another person.

Biomechanic doesn't try and measure what happens in other people's heads. What he does measure is what happens with their bodies in incredible detail. He assessesd what happens and can say what is good and what is harmful. And he has exercises that he can use to improve the good and remove what is harmful. And this is what is key to what he has to offer. He has exercises that train your body to have more efficient and effective movement patterns, which have been proven to work through lots and lots of testing. TGM has all this information on what your swing should do. Biomechanic has information on how you can do it, and exercises to teach you to do it.

It's not that this is the only way to play better golf. As Daryl has pointed out he is an example of someone who plays very good golf and has never had this training. But this is such an efficient way to improve. I mean, how much improvement would you expect from 12 hours of exercises performed over 10 weeks? Particularly if your swing completely changed from a long, upright, handsy action to a flat, short action. And all this with no instruction on setup, on grip, on plane, on backswing, on footwork, on hinge actions, on the right arm, on flat left wrist, on bent right wrist, on driving the shoulder, on weight shift, on power packages, on anything that looked like golf mechanics.

And you know what? I am sure I am learning many of these things. I am getting compression that I didn't even know existed. I must have a FLW or I wouldn't get that. I must have lag or I wouldn't get that.

[stinkler]

Nice post Weeties. I feel the same improvement. I have not 'thought' about my full swing of late at all, just done my PST's as instructed (though I might add I do understand my faults/issues and areas that need to be improved by the PST program, I just don't consciously need to address them). Today I went out for 9 holes and shot 2 over, which for me is by far a PB. Now sure, you have good days, but it felt like my body new what to do without any swing thoughts due to the training I've been doing. My ball striking was beautiful (for me). Of course having said that last month I did lots of basic motion chipping working my hinges so my short game is pretty good too.
I'm working at both ends of the chain, just to be safe.

[Weetbix]

Nice post Weeties. I feel the same improvement. I have not 'thought' about my full swing of late at all, just done my PST's as instructed. Today I went out for 9 holes and shot 2 over, which for me is by far a PB. Now sure, you have good days, but it felt like my body new what to do without any swing thoughts due to the training I've been doing. My ball striking was beautiful (for me). Of course having said that last month I did lots of basic motion chipping working my hinges so my short game is pretty good too.
I'm working at both ends of the chain, just to be safe.

Thanks stinkler. I have been working on my short game a little. But I need to pick it up a bit. Will need to get to the range for this because I am starting to be able to hit it the distance I want (because I've been practicing with a basket in the back yard) but I am getting way more backspin that I'm used to (a non-distance ball plus I'm getting some compression) so I am coming up short a fair bit. But that is something I can work on.

And those 6-10 foot putts too. I'm realising just how critical they are. Now that I can expect to get around the green in regulation or one over.

[okie]

I have not had a chance to read all of the posts. I guess my understandimg of the relationship between action/motion...physics/geometry is all screwed up. I viewed it as geometry making physics behave, kinda like a blueprint for a building. Bio when you publish something let us know. My beliefs concerning the golf stroke are based on the integrity of Homer Kelley's classic work, not my own theories but my limited understanding of his. In that sense I have nothing new to add. but I do believe that originality is nothing but judicious imitation!

[12 piece bucket]

If you are talking about the unconscious mind I think you may be right. And what Biomechanic teaches is exercises that train your unconscious movement patterns to become more efficient. The only other way I have heard to train these is through consciously repeating a mechanical action to create "muscle memory". This is a slow process requiring repetition after repetition.

I have no idea why the training works. I have done very little training yet it has had an almost instant and noticable impact, both to my swing and my results. Biomechanic trains the causes that lead to clubhead lag, that lead to a flat left wrist and that lead to an on plane swing. I haven't worked on any of these effects. Not one. Instead I am being trained in what causes them.

To apply your analogy a good race driver does not think about the pedals, the wheel, or the brake. A good driver sees the line they want to drive on and their body responds with the right mechanical activities to put the car on that line at the highest possible speed. It is learner drivers who have to think about gears, pedals and wheels - and they don't drive very well.

You cannot find out what happens in a top level golfers mind, except that they will tell you "very little". I remember an article where they measured Greg Norman's pre shot routine. They found that his bad shots almost always has a pre shot routine that is slightly longer than normal. His best shots come when he goes into autopilot. And you cannot be taught autopilot from another person.

Biomechanic doesn't try and measure what happens in other people's heads. What he does measure is what happens with their bodies in incredible detail. He assessesd what happens and can say what is good and what is harmful. And he has exercises that he can use to improve the good and remove what is harmful. And this is what is key to what he has to offer. He has exercises that train your body to have more efficient and effective movement patterns, which have been proven to work through lots and lots of testing. TGM has all this information on what your swing should do. Biomechanic has information on how you can do it, and exercises to teach you to do it.

It's not that this is the only way to play better golf. As Daryl has pointed out he is an example of someone who plays very good golf and has never had this training. But this is such an efficient way to improve. I mean, how much improvement would you expect from 12 hours of exercises performed over 10 weeks? Particularly if your swing completely changed from a long, upright, handsy action to a flat, short action. And all this with no instruction on setup, on grip, on plane, on backswing, on footwork, on hinge actions, on the right arm, on flat left wrist, on bent right wrist, on driving the shoulder, on weight shift, on power packages, on anything that looked like golf mechanics.

And you know what? I am sure I am learning many of these things. I am getting compression that I didn't even know existed. I must have a FLW or I wouldn't get that. I must have lag or I wouldn't get that.

Sounds good . . . do you have any before and after video? I'd be interested to see if you motion changed? Or if you were just generating more speed with the same motion?

You said . .

He has exercises that train your body to have more efficient and effective movement patterns, which have been proven to work through lots and lots of testing

I'm still a bit confused on what you measure and from what starting point? Efficient and effective movement patterns in relation to what? Effective as to what end?

[Weetbix]

Sounds good . . . do you have any before and after video? I'd be interested to see if you motion changed? Or if you were just generating more speed with the same motion?

I've uploaded a video I took in my backyard on 1 July, and then another tonight. There are already shots from April so that will give you something to compare against.

The 1 July 09 shots were after doing about a month of PST. Tonight would be about 2 and a half months, I estimate about 20 sessions which would take about 30 minutes each.

Actually I'll be interested myself in having a look - as I've said I have no pattern that I'm working towards, this stuff has just come out of the exercises.

I will add a proviso that all of these are taken without a ball, just practice swings. I have no idea how much this changes when I'm actually addressing a ball.

[O.B.Left]

I will add a proviso that all of these are taken without a ball, just practice swings. I have no idea how much this changes when I'm actually addressing a ball.
]

The ball changes everything. One of Homers biggest revelations and the basis of much of his theory. He didnt steer dandelions in his yard but he did when confronted by a golf ball. Steering and Throw Away. I look like George Knudson in my yard........if only I could look that way in the presence of a ball. I have hundreds of video examples to prove it. Pathetic though they are.

Homers advice , obtuse though it was, is very practical.

Cheers.

[Weetbix]

The ball changes everything. One of Homers biggest revelations and the basis of much of his theory. He didnt steer dandelions in his yard but he did when confronted by a golf ball. Steering and Throw Away. I look like George Knudson in my yard........if only I could look that way in the presence of a ball. I have hundreds of video examples to prove it. Pathetic though they are.

Homers advice , obtuse though it was, is very practical.

Cheers.

Yeah OB, couldn't agree more - that was my thought behind the proviso.

I first discovered TGM and G.O.L.F. at ISeekGolf.com in Australia (my home). And what I discovered was wonderful. A terminology that was so much more precise. Some clear imperitives and why they are so important. And lots of information about how there are many many ways to hit a golf ball and the only difference between them is that some are generally more effective at lowering your score than others (if you get what I mean). I really like the concept of learning feel from mechanics and then repeating the feel to create the mechanics. But I found that it took me a lot of time, and that it was very easy to lose it again. And I struggle for the time.

I also am not a natural when it comes to golf. I probably played my first game at 12. I'm now 38. It took me until I was about 26 to break 100. Then after going to the range and getting lessons I finally broke 90 about 6 years ago. And I've plateau'd since then.

When bioengine first introduced me to what he did I was wary, because lets face it there is barely a web site you can get on to these days that doesn't have an ad saying "This is the secret to golf". But I asked lots of questions and he showed me what he did on a web conference. And where it spoke to me is that it said there is an optimal way for your body to work to swing a tool hard - golf club, tennis racquet, baseball bat, axe, whatever. There are ways that consistently deliver power in a way that moves the ball the way you want it to. And I thought that this was at least partly a reason why some people are just good at sports - because they have a good kinetic link. You know, there are people who go out and their first round they hit 95.

So I know that I am not one of those people. Never been a natural at any sport. Golf was no exception (as you can see from my stats above). So here is someone saying they can analyse my movement patterns AND give me specific exercises to improve mine. And they are working. I don't know why. Some of them are, as bioengine calls them "silly little exercises". But today I completed them in about 25 minutes. I should do them 3 times a week, but I generally only do them twice. And three days ago I hit 9 out of 13 fairways and hit 8 GIR and another 4 that were just off. And I would have hit at least 5 drives that were 20-30 metres longer than my norm - 240-250m instead of 210-220m.

So I'm very happy with results so far - after only 10 weeks!

[Weetbix]

I've uploaded a video I took in my backyard on 1 July, and then another tonight. There are already shots from April so that will give you something to compare against.

The 1 July 09 shots were after doing about a month of PST. Tonight would be about 2 and a half months, I estimate about 20 sessions which would take about 30 minutes each.

Actually I'll be interested myself in having a look - as I've said I have no pattern that I'm working towards, this stuff has just come out of the exercises.

I will add a proviso that all of these are taken without a ball, just practice swings. I have no idea how much this changes when I'm actually addressing a ball.

Anybody got any thoughts?

[golfguru]

Most who practice to not hit the deck will do struggle to make low point when it counts.

Not saying you do not. Beware ingrained practice is hard to shift unless its correct practice of ball striking routines.

If you did this on grass, I assume the club would be "divoting".