"What you load is what you dump". Ben Doyle - GSED, the 1st, no less.
Accumulating is loading and the subsequent releasing of the accumulated forces is dumping. Not exact TGM terminology but a very effective description of what actually takes place, nevertheless.
I suspect that you knew that already, of course, but it just did not suit your purpose to say so.
I have tried very hard to stay out of this thread but your attitude to those who do not feast at your table is something you might like to address.
You have much to offer, and we are all grateful for that, but the energy expended in alienating those you perceive to be in opposition would be far better spent on their conversion.
Did Homer Kelley use that Term? Actually, no, I didn't know that Ben Doyle said that. I have his tapes, DVD's, I've had 2 lessons with Ben Doyle and I've talked to him on the Phone many times and he has never said to me that Release is "Dumping" and I wouldn't describe my Release as "Dumping". But I haven't a clue what that means even if Ben Doyle coined the term unless I asked him to explain it. I would describe my Release as a "Sequentially Flowing Throw". But I haven't adopted my description of "feel" as a TGM Term. Does that make sense to you? As difficult as it is, I try not to assume I understand a concept without extensive collaboration, sometimes over years. Even then, applying it, is a completely different learning experience. I didn't go to TGM school.
What do you mean "Feast at your Table"? Are you saying that in addition to thousands of available stroke patterns, that TGM concepts themselves are open for a variety of equally valid interpretations?
Burner, it's odd that Ben Doyle said that. During my first lesson, Ben broke a tee in half and pushed it into the ground on a rearward leaning angle so that only a very tiny tip of the tee remained above ground. He told me to to use a chipping stroke and drive the tee into the ground without touching a single blade of grass. I said: "impossible". He took the club out of my hand, then, using a Pitching length Swing he not only drove the tee underground but did so without touching a single blade of grass as he continued with an almost full finish. Whoa. He gave the club back to me, and with a chipping stroke I hit every blade of grass around the tee without ever touching the tee. He told me I should learn to do that with a full swing.
Is the skill level and precision Impact needed for that test, best described by "Dumping"?
Lets proceed with dignity and mutual respect, everyone deserves that after all (except Bucket and Mike O who came over last weekend and put lipstick and fishnets on my dog Buster, who's walking real weird too these days, but I digress).
Lynn took that photo of Homer whirling that balsa wood clubhead around from the second AI class I think. I believe it had a screw in its sweetspot, COG. Lynn would know what the deal was with that demonstration. Below is Alex Sloan's take on it from the first AI class.
So does unbridled CF produce an over roll? Slice's answer was great, thanks for that. We missed a chance to talk about it too cause you guys where doing other things sadly but ........What do you think?
I would like to chime in a bit here . . . CF according Mr. Kelley does produce Horizontal Hinging . . . however according to Mr. Kelley the amount of force required to override the cf acting clubFACE is minimal . . . hence the "manipulated hands swinger." The amount of force required to override cf on the clubhead/shaft . . . different story.
So from a practical stand point if you chose to swing then how can you keep your hinging from turning into an unbridled swivel as upposed to an unpredictable flash of the face? ANSWER . . . keep the massive rotor GOING . . . and keep its mass CENTERED and far enough down the plane line so you don't run out of right arm. So if you "hangback" with the right shoulder via a perverted axis tilt, not enough weight left, or your right shoulder ain't moving down out and forward the proper amounts . . . the dawg runing on the chain gets choked out . . . DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOUR LEFT SHOULDER IS?
"Keep the Rotor going". Nice, we've all felt the consequences of not doing that. I think this maybe ties in with what Slice said too. Is this a maintenance of CF then? If Homer had of slowed the RPM's of twirling string would the face have rolled over?
Do you mind taking us through the photos, what do you see there? Is Adam Scotts COG or Axis of Rotation (in a VJ Trolio sense) not far enough left to your mind? In the comparison of Hogan and Tiger , is it Hogans hips being turned more that you are looking at? The right foot drag move of his that Knudson adopted plays a big part in that I believe although its relates to ones flexibility and is therefor a custom fit kind of deal. Hogans drag was smallish , Knusdon's especially as he got older was longer as he preached getting to Finish in a super comfortable way with your "center" (cog, I guess) pointing right at the target, exactly. But I digress.
I don't think CF produces an over roll. It doesn't produce a roll at all. It produces angled hinging.
I actually thought that CF (or actually angular speed) would add inertia and make it harder to close the club than when it is at rest. But after a brief check on www on angular inertia, coreolis force etc I think the work requred is the same in any case.
The machine have to close the club directly. A level hip probably helps for precision. And a good pair of wedges. A little initial torque from the top or somewhere in the down stroke. And keeping the left wrist vertical throughout. Whether the closing is freewheeling or adjusted by the hands isn't a biggie. The hands know their impact alignments whether they are right or wrong, and the work involved in closing the club is anyway close to nil.
"Keep the Rotor going". Nice, we've all felt the consequences of not doing that. I think this maybe ties in with what Slice said too. Is this a maintenance of CF then? If Homer had of slowed the RPM's of twirling string would the face have rolled over?
Do you mind taking us through the photos, what do you see there? Is Adam Scotts COG or Axis of Rotation (in a VJ Trolio sense) not far enough left to your mind? In the comparison of Hogan and Tiger , is it Hogans hips being turned more that you are looking at? The right foot drag move of his that Knudson adopted plays a big part in that I believe although its relates to ones flexibility and is therefor a custom fit kind of deal. Hogans drag was smallish , Knusdon's especially as he got older was longer as he preached getting to Finish in a super comfortable way with your "center" (cog, I guess) pointing right at the target, exactly. But I digress.
What I see is right shoulder geometry in action . . . look at Hogan's right shoulder (Lynnard LBGreengenez too!) compared to Scott at start down. Scott's right shoulder has already ducked under his left shoulder . . . axis tilt already starting to kick in. Take a look farther into the swing and compare where Eldrick's right shoulder is compared to Hogan at a similar spot in the swang . . . Hogan's right arm "runs out of chain" way later than Eldrick and Scott too . . . Eldrick's gettin his tilt by his head going back vs. Hogan who get's his axis tilt from his hips going forward. Look at Scott's wrist just past follow thru . . . he's rubbing forearms together (you can get thrown in jail for that down here) . . . but do you think he's trying to do that? Or can't help it?
What I see is right shoulder geometry in action . . . look at Hogan's right shoulder (Lynnard LBGreengenez too!) compared to Scott at start down. Scott's right shoulder has already ducked under his left shoulder . . . axis tilt already starting to kick in. Take a look farther into the swing and compare where Eldrick's right shoulder is compared to Hogan at a similar spot in the swang . . . Hogan's right arm "runs out of chain" way later than Eldrick and Scott too . . . Eldrick's gettin his tilt by his head going back vs. Hogan who get's his axis tilt from his hips going forward. Look at Scott's wrist just past follow thru . . . he's rubbing forearms together (you can get thrown in jail for that down here) . . . but do you think he's trying to do that? Or can't help it?
Thanks for sharing Bucket. You're giving away some of the secret spices and herbs here. Awesome.
Hybrid Mode
