zero shift

[Anonymous]

I think we all agree there is no Plane Shift on the Downstroke as Els' hands come directly down the Turned Shoulder Plane.

However, because Els does not address the ball with an on-plane Right Forearm, the angle of inclination of the clubshaft (and his hands) are positioned several inches below the Turned Shoulder Plane. His hands don't arrive on the Turned Shoulder Plane until about shoulder high (the Top). That would be a single shift -- Elbow to Turned Shoulder.

My final answer is......zero shift.....nada shift.....in plain english no shift.


DG

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by rwh

I think we all agree there is no Plane Shift on the Downstroke as Els' hands come directly down the Turned Shoulder Plane. However, because Els does not address the ball with an on-plane Right Forearm, the angle of inclination of the clubshaft (and his hands) are positioned several inches below the Turned Shoulder Plane. His hands don't arrive on the Turned Shoulder Plane until about shoulder high (the Top). That would be a single shift -- Elbow to Turned Shoulder.

You're spot on rwh- it's what I've always said. So what if Hip Turn is Standard and Hip Action is Delayed-- these other component variations are of no significance regarding Plane Variation-- it's completely irrelevant.

EDIT: ok Delaware, I will let you off your Zero Shift theory of Els if you're referring to no shift in the downstroke- but that's a different matter. There ain't no component based solely on downstroke plane variation.

The comment about hip action is totally wrong.....standard hip action will give one a double shift....look no further than the 4 barrel stroke from the 3rd edition. With a right forearm takeaway, delayed hip action and a Top Arc and Straight line delivery path one can achieve a zero shift plane angle. It's one of the reasons both stroke patterns in the book have zero shift basic plane angles. Hmmmm your comments in this section are telling me how much you guys lack in understanding component integration. The golfer who lacks the understanding of educated hands and who doesn't understand the delivery path concept and desires length off the tee can easily turn a right forearm takeaway and delayed hip action into a "Top Arc and Angle Path delivery path" and create a double shift (study 2-H). It appears to me you guys don't have a full understanding of delivery paths.....years of experimentation and study lead me to the above conclusion.

DG

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by DOCW3

rwh~ What I was wanting to establish was a book photo(s) illustrating zero shift. Since none are included in 10-7, I assume that is because they are already there (once is enought!). I like those in 10-13 but 10-6-B preceeds the 10-7 information. You may still have the Steven Covey question, "how old is the lady?" DRW

DRW,

I am unaware of any photo depicting a Zero Shift.

At this point you don't need a photo depicting a zero shift you're witnessing a zero shift in Ernie's swing.

Geeezzzz, I believe the bigger mystery in the Els video is not about plane angle it's about Ernie's hands.....it appears he is starting from a impact fix condition.....I see no movement in his hands.....no movement from standard address to an impact condition during his backswing????

DG

[densikat]

Originally Posted by rwh

I think we all agree there is no Plane Shift on the Downstroke as Els' hands come directly down the Turned Shoulder Plane. However, because Els does not address the ball with an on-plane Right Forearm, the angle of inclination of the clubshaft (and his hands) are positioned several inches below the Turned Shoulder Plane. His hands don't arrive on the Turned Shoulder Plane until about shoulder high (the Top). That would be a single shift -- Elbow to Turned Shoulder.

My final answer is......zero shift.....nada shift.....in plain english no shift.


DG

Really Delaware, is that final answer out of stubbornness? Els HAS to shift, he starts below a turned shoulder plane at setup. Then in the downswing he comes down a turned shoulder plane. Please explain to me how he gets from his lower than turned shoulder plane setup to this turned shoulder downswing plane without shifting??

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by Delaware Golf

Originally Posted by rwh I think we all agree there is no Plane Shift on the Downstroke as Els' hands come directly down the Turned Shoulder Plane. However, because Els does not address the ball with an on-plane Right Forearm, the angle of inclination of the clubshaft (and his hands) are positioned several inches below the Turned Shoulder Plane. His hands don't arrive on the Turned Shoulder Plane until about shoulder high (the Top). That would be a single shift -- Elbow to Turned Shoulder. My final answer is......zero shift.....nada shift.....in plain english no shift. DG

Really Delaware, is that final answer out of stubbornness? Els HAS to shift, he starts below a turned shoulder plane at setup. Then in the downswing he comes down a turned shoulder plane. Please explain to me how he gets from his lower than turned shoulder plane setup to this turned shoulder downswing plane without shifting??

You guys are hung up on address and I'm watching the path of his hands and the club.....no shift, SORRY. Ernie DOES NOT START OUT ON THE ELBOW PLANE ANGLE!!! IT'S A FACT NOT AN OPINION. In the book, the model Diane is not set-up with an on-plane right forearm for the turned shoulder plane, she is set-up like Ernie.....it's interesting that she is set-up with an on-plane right forearm for the elbow plane!!!!!!

DG

[armourall]

...it appears he is starting from a impact fix condition.....I see no movement in his hands.....no movement from standard address to an impact condition during his backswing????

DG

Does Els have a Level Left Wrist at Address?

[JohnThomas1]

Tho there is an obvious difference in the elbow to waist position i would almost argue the right forearm is onplane in both the elbow AND the turned shoulder procedures. The elbow to wrist positions against the plane are so close to identical.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by rwh

Originally Posted by DOCW3 rwh~ What I was wanting to establish was a book photo(s) illustrating zero shift. Since none are included in 10-7, I assume that is because they are already there (once is enought!). I like those in 10-13 but 10-6-B preceeds the 10-7 information. You may still have the Steven Covey question, "how old is the lady?" DRW DRW, I am unaware of any photo depicting a Zero Shift.

Obviously there is not one with that label! If this means there is not one, it would seem to be a contradiction for someone who provided photos for almost everything of significance. Now, what did I do with that incubator?

The Shifts catalogued as Component #7 are Variations of the Basic Plane Angles catalogued as Component #6. The Zero Shift classification (10-7-A) means there is no variation from the Plane Angle selected as Component #6. Hence, no photos other than those depicting the Basic Plane Angles (10-6-A/E) are required.

Two related points readers may find helpful:

First, the photos accompanying the On Plane Shoulder Turn (10-13-D #1/#2/#3) are essential to understanding how the Zero Shift is accomplished.

Second, the photos depicting the Angled Line Delivery Paths (10-23-B/D) are equally valid for the Double Shift (10-7-C) in both directions. The photos depicting the Straight Line Delivery Paths (10-23-A/C) illustrate the Zero Shift Turned Shoulder Plane.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Yoda,

And Ernie is using a 10-23-C delivery path.....this is exactly the delivery path that Tomasello taught in the Australia video....Ernie is just more flexible than Tommy.

Guys....I'm not looking for an arguement just the truth through an analysis with Homer's TGM....in most cases it takes multiple components to make a sound evaluation.


DG

[DOCW3]

Originally Posted by DOCW3

Originally Posted by rwh Originally Posted by DOCW3 rwh~ What I was wanting to establish was a book photo(s) illustrating zero shift. Since none are included in 10-7, I assume that is because they are already there (once is enought!). I like those in 10-13 but 10-6-B preceeds the 10-7 information. You may still have the Steven Covey question, "how old is the lady?" DRW DRW, I am unaware of any photo depicting a Zero Shift. Obviously there is not one with that label! If this means there is not one, it would seem to be a contradiction for someone who provided photos for almost everything of significance. Now, what did I do with that incubator?

The Shifts catalogued as Component #7 are Variations of the Basic Plane Angles catalogued as Component #6. The Zero Shift classification (10-7-A) means there is no variation from the Plane Angle selected as Component #6. Hence, no photos other than those depicting the Basic Plane Angles (10-6-A/E) are required.

Two related points readers may find helpful:

First, the photos accompanying the On Plane Shoulder Turn (10-13-D #1/#2/#3) are essential to understanding how the Zero Shift is accomplished.

Second, the photos depicting the Angled Line Delivery Paths (10-23-B/D) are equally valid for the Double Shift (10-7-C) in both directions. The photos depicting the Straight Line Delivery Paths (10-23-A/C) illustrate the Zero Shift Turned Shoulder Plane.

Yoda~

Thanks for the reminder that the player has a zero shift option with any of the Basic Plane Angles. Considering the Elbow Plane is most commonly used, when selected, is it correct to conclude that the Shoulder will provide the greatest support and guidance to the Stroke (7-13) if the player elects to single shift to the TSP?

If the student knew to "pencil-in" your 10-13-D comment, I suspect connecting 10-6 and 10-13 would be much less difficult. Concerning "essentials" I would relate the photos to the point Mr. K makes about adjusting the Clubshaft Plane if the Right Shoulder cannot reach it. There seems to be ample attention to the TSP. "Hole'ies & Pole'ies" from the Gallery finally loaded yesterday and your setup teaching IMO is reinforcing.

DRW