"If two players wind up at impact separation with the clubhead, face and shaft in the exact same alignments all at the same speed and hitting the ball in the same spot on the face with every other alignment matching with the only difference being that one player arrived there after a Horizontal Hinge action and other player arrived there after a Vertical Hinge Action."
Exact same alignments, same spot on club face , same speed, etc.
The ball would have the exact same compression - how could it not?? That being said it is easier to add loft using a vertial hinge but that is not relevant to the question at presented.
Hey mb.
I know that the question as posted is not the one you really want answered. Change the question if you want.......
To spell it out.........how can "the clubhead, face and shaft ....all at the same speed" happen given any # 3 angle? It cant. The butt end and the head are not traveling at the same speed for HH vs Angled vs VH. .......Its impossible.
So his question must change. Which makes things more apples vs oranges ......to my mind.
Sorta like two cars doing 60 mph....one a vw beatle in fourth gear the other a porsche.....ya they're both assumed to be going 60 but does that mean they are equally powerful in a general sense? Of course not. Does this make the Porsche's power advantage "irrelevant" .......no , of course not. HH is the Porsche in this example which relates to velocity only. Id suggest that there are other considerations to compression for HH vs VH beyond this point.
So, is the official answer that my hypothetical is an impossibility?
Even with a pitch?
or a chip?
Could I build an iron byron type machine to create it?
or is it against all the laws of physics that no combination of work or intelligence could make it happen?
JG
You could build an iron byron to recreate Hinge Action Id imagine ........but it would have to have some #3 Accumulator Angle....... the grip in the left hand under the heal of the thumb pad instead of running up through the life line. ( like one does when putting ..........and why do we do that when we're putting? Because it deadens the send applied to the ball......by zeroing out the clubhead travel associated with any rolling of the left wrist. Giving every Hinge Action the clubhead travel of Angled Hinging .......which is zero) Its interesting to me that golfers commonly adopt this putting grip , sometimes even when chipping without any knowledge of why .......but the physics of it is there for the ball to react to.
If you want more info on #3 angle check out Ted Forts golf channel video......there's a part where he talks about "distal" acceleration as I recall. Imagine doing that with a putting grip and notice how there wouldnt be any added clubhead acceleration for left forearm roll.
You could build an iron byron to recreate Hinge Action Id imagine ........but it would have to have some #3 Accumulator Angle....... the grip in the left hand under the heal of the thumb pad instead of running up through the life line. ( like one does when putting ..........and why do we do that when we're putting? Because it deadens the send applied to the ball......by zeroing out the clubhead travel associated with any rolling of the left wrist. Giving every Hinge Action the clubhead travel of Angled Hinging .......which is zero) Its interesting to me that golfers commonly adopt this putting grip , sometimes even when chipping without any knowledge of why .......but the physics of it is there for the ball to react to.
If you want more info on #3 angle check out Ted Forts golf channel video......there's a part where he talks about "distal" acceleration as I recall. Imagine doing that with a putting grip and notice how it would accelerate the clubhead at all.
OB.
Interesting point.
If I remember correctly, the more #3 accumulator the more head travel for any forearm rotation. Am I saying that right?
So, for horizontal hinging which employs more #3 the club head is accelerating more then with vertical hinging?
Am I correct so far?
Would that mean that if I can accelerate the club more over a shorter time frame that I get more umf than going at a constant speed?
I hope I haven't just confused myself. Is this what you meant with your car analogy?
If I remember correctly, the more #3 accumulator the more head travel for any forearm rotation. Am I saying that right?
So, for horizontal hinging which employs more #3 the club head is accelerating more then with vertical hinging?
Am I correct so far?
Would that mean that if I can accelerate the club more over a shorter time frame that I get more umf than going at a constant speed?
I hope I haven't just confused myself. Is this what you meant with your car analogy?
JG
The car analogy was a little different. It was more about assuming they ( beatle and 911) are going the same speed and then deducing they are equally powerful. They're different cars. For any given hand speed you get more clubhead speed with Horizontal.
The #3 angle is set when you grip the club really. So Horizontal and Vertical have the same amount of #3 angle. No difference there. But Horizontal (in simple terms) has the left arm rolling. Angled has it not rolling. Vertical has it reverse rolling. So Horizontal's clubhead travel is greater (than the other hinge actions) for any associated distance the hands travel . Vertical a reverse roll has the clubhead traveling less. Angled has zero cubhead hinge " travel".
Did i say that correctly ? Now Im getting confused.
Try this....hold out your left arm and hand as if to shake someones hand , now drop it down on the inclined plane. Now grip an imaginary golf club and take your hand back and forth a foot or so. No left arm roll equals Angled. Roll equals Horizontal , reverse roll is Vertical. Imagine how that change in roll changes the distance the head travels though your hands are only going back and forth a foot or so. Now adopt a putting grip with the club running up the life line.... hinging has zero influence clubhead speed, "zero travel" via a "zeroed #3 accumulator, just different clubface rotation.
So the hinge action employed influences clubhead speed and the rate of clubface closing and layback.
In regard to closing , the clubface is in the process of continuously closing through impact however brief that may be. The face will be more closed at separation than at impact unless impact is 0 seconds long. Same deal with layback, the clubface will be more lofted at separation. So the question is does this influence ball behaviour, compression? My chips and pitches suggest it does.
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