I was frustrated while filming this, and i can't recall. BUT, Probably it was a 7i.
I might add that it was a bit rushed to create this thread and post that video now. I should have thought about it more.
I am going to work on my Basic Motion until im ready to move on to Aquired, and total. I have diciplinary issues with this. I tend to forget my goals at times, and start hitting full shots, and trying to "implement" things on the fly, more or less. And with doing this, i fall in to old habits, having to start all over again.
I will be posting again when I get my things straight. And for now. Its basic motion until i got that part relatively figured out.
Thanks.
PS. I do have ONE question though. I can't figure this out. Looking at that video, is my swing considered Over the top? The question is, what is the major cause to my outside in path?
I´m not in the neighborhood of being an AI but I would like to try sharing my thoughts on your Swing. I see two things (the really knowledgeable see of course more).
1. You are taking the club back a bit on the outside in the beginning. "As it goes up it tends to come back".
2. You are a bit fluid with your headposition. More so in the downswing. There is not really a stable Tripod.
I hope I´m not insulting you with these reflections. Perhaps I got a bit courageous after playing 5 practiceholes on par and really feeling the whole swing hang together. My hard work is beginning to pay off.
Hans
__________________
I try to educate my hands - it´s tougher than educating pupils
I second that you're taking the club back on a slightly outside - in path.
But it seems like a reasonably flat plane (as it should be) - only that the plane you're swinging on is crossing your target line towards left field. If you aim for a straightish draw your plane line should be down the target line.
But what I do see is clear signs of steering. You do come down towards impact with some decent accumulator #2 lag (wrist cock angle left hand), but the overtaking rate seems to be zeroed way to early, because just after impact your arms have almost the same rotary speed as the clubhead. It's a sure sign that you have wasted power and no wonder you have lost distance.
You should have at least the same amount of accumulator #2 lead half way into the follow thru as you had accumulator #2 lag on your way down. That may not be the root cause, but it usually helsp to prepare and anticipate a proper overtaking after impact in any case.
Are you by chance left eye dominant and right handed?
Do you have a preference for Borge Salming underwear ?
I am and do although its hard to find here in Toronto these days. Somebody could make millions selling that stuff over here. That guy was a hockey god.
Amen's going to fix you up. Please keep us "in the loop" as you progress. You've got a lot of good things happening for only two years of golf.
I´m not in the neighborhood of being an AI but I would like to try sharing my thoughts on your Swing. I see two things (the really knowledgeable see of course more).
1. You are taking the club back a bit on the outside in the beginning. "As it goes up it tends to come back".
2. You are a bit fluid with your headposition. More so in the downswing. There is not really a stable Tripod.
I hope I´m not insulting you with these reflections. Perhaps I got a bit courageous after playing 5 practiceholes on par and really feeling the whole swing hang together. My hard work is beginning to pay off.
Hans
Not at all insulting. I think its refreshing!
For point #1.
I used to take the club back more to the inside, but I probably did it wrong. Because it felt too tight, as my right elbow would get stuck on my hip in the downswing and I had problems clearing my hip. Hence the enormous hip slide I have now. Which also probably is a bad thing.
For #2. Yes, my head is swaying and bobbing and going for a roller coaster ride. Since I got my swing on tape, and actually got a visual on what i was doing.... well, other then it was scary looking at this so called "golf swing", I have been working on keeping my head more stationary.
Thanks for the input. Appriciated!
Quote:
Welcome to LBG Christian,
I second that you're taking the club back on a slightly outside - in path.
But it seems like a reasonably flat plane (as it should be) - only that the plane you're swinging on is crossing your target line towards left field. If you aim for a straightish draw your plane line should be down the target line.
But what I do see is clear signs of steering. You do come down towards impact with some decent accumulator #2 lag (wrist cock angle left hand), but the overtaking rate seems to be zeroed way to early, because just after impact your arms have almost the same rotary speed as the clubhead. It's a sure sign that you have wasted power and no wonder you have lost distance.
You should have at least the same amount of accumulator #2 lead half way into the follow thru as you had accumulator #2 lag on your way down. That may not be the root cause, but it usually helsp to prepare and anticipate a proper overtaking after impact in any case.
Interesting. I have not thought of it as of steering before, but I realise you are spot on. (My know-how is limited.. but, it sounds resonable)
And this is interesting. When I filmed the swing I posted here, I also filmed a practice swing. And that swing looks just so much better and more... well it has a different flow to it, and the clubhead doesnt pass my hands until well after "impact". BUT, what I also saw on that practice swing, was that at impact, the clubface was wide open.(I didnt actually see the clubface, but my left wrist was almost turned, and did not become vertical until after impact) And that might be, subconsiously the reason behind this steering, or?
On a side note, to confirm what you are saying.. I own a P3pro golf simulator. When swinging WITH a ball, I'm usually relativly square with the club face, and with an outside-in swing path, 3 or so degrees. (this is relative to the target line since thats the only thing the P3pro measures)
While when swinging without a ball, Im usually more inside-out with my path, however, my clubhead is 12-15 degrees open. Thanks of opening up my eyes more on this matter.
Not sure how I have been so blind.
Quote:
Welcome to LBG Christian.
Are you by chance left eye dominant and right handed?
Do you have a preference for Borge Salming underwear ?
I am and do although its hard to find here in Toronto these days. Somebody could make millions selling that stuff over here. That guy was a hockey god.
Amen's going to fix you up. Please keep us "in the loop" as you progress. You've got a lot of good things happening for only two years of golf.
1. I have read about this, left or right eye dominance, but I cant say. I THINK im right eye dominant. And I am right handed, but I should have been left handed. For some reason, many years ago when learning to write, the teachers more or less forced me to do it with my right hand, and not my left. So I generally use both hands nowdays depending on what i do, and sometimes i get confused on what hand to use. I do play hockey with my right hand DOWN on the stick. And I play golf as a righty... Not sure if that answers your question.
2. What can I say... Quality underwear. His brand has a store at the airport im visiting two times a week, only Salming. Great stuff.
And yes, I will go see Amen, once I can find the time.
Thanks for your welcomes guys. And I look forward to my stay here.
Cheers!
/Chris
PS. I do want to add that, this was filmed a few weeks ago, while in deep frustration over my swing. Even if most parts probably look the same on video today, I have been going back to working on the FLW again, and this have helped me a good deal. But, as I said earlier, I will try to stick with basic motion for a while, while practicing.
Last edited by Christian : 10-17-2010 at 06:48 PM.
Glad to hear I at least got your brand of underwear right....I guess I'd better turn it over to Amen from here.
I've often wonderd if right hand low in hockey tends one towards Drive Loading for golf? No conclusions just food for thought.
Look at Al MaCinnis, owner one of the all time best slap shots........active right elbow thrusting against the aft of the shaft. And finally the great man himself Borje Salming in follow through he even has his forearm on plane , the equivalent of a Right Forearm Flying Wedge (if he was shooting right).
I believe you are creating the open clubface as you start taking the club back at address. If you look down at your club as you start your takeaway you should see a clubface that is slightly closed to the path you're taking the club back on. A club face that points slightly to the right of the target and a back swing that at doesn't even think about going to the outside of that line is a good start.
As you proceed back you need not be afraid to let the face open.
It is important that you start the back swing as a proper swing motion. Use your feet, hips and shoulders and not only your arms to get the path right. No cheating. You want a glitchfree back swing that sets you up to come down the way you went back. You may have to adjust your shoulders and head position at address before you're set to do a square takeaway and a drawish downswing.
There are a components and component variations and component compensations that goes straight to the heart of doing the geometric motion that I described above. And there are several here on LBG who can help you with the finer details of all components involved. I hope some of them will chime in, because your situation is very common.
And there are many possible paths to lasting improvements. A teaching pro might choose to address the symptoms directly or rebuild to a better stroke piece by piece. In which case you should go with the pro.
Being picky about the address and takeaway never hurts in any case, IMO.
Glad to hear I at least got your brand of underwear right....I guess I'd better turn it over to Amen from here.
I've often wonderd if right hand low in hockey tends one towards Drive Loading for golf? No conclusions just food for thought.
Look at Al MaCinnis, owner one of the all time best slap shots........active right elbow thrusting against the aft of the shaft. And finally the great man himself Borje Salming in follow through he even has his forearm on plane , the equivalent of a Right Forearm Flying Wedge (if he was shooting right).
Interesting that you mention this. I have thought about it aswell -(the reason why I mentioned "right hand down on a hockey stick) -, and it would be interesting to hear some theories.
I can say this much. I started playing golf as a hitter. Without knowing I was hitting. I went to a pro Late april this year, and thats when I changed to "swinging".
By that time I didn't know the terms as hitting, or swinging. My pro told me, that I should swing with my left side, and let the right arm basically come along for the ride. And he also stated that I can't play golf as I play hockey. (Right arm muscular thrust). "No low handicaper does that" (His words, not mine). Not knowing better, I blindly belived that was THE way.
And thats when I started trying to swing, and trust CF... I don't trust it because I can't control it. That might also add to my steering.. Ofcourse, I realise that, the reason I feel I can't control it, is very much because of my flawed fundamentals.
I started researching about the left side driving the swing. And eventually, I ended up with TGM. And later, I ended up here. And now I know, Right arm thrust is a perfectly sound way to hit a golf ball. I feel like a hitter. But I'm not sure I would want to mess up my swing even MORE by starting to hit. On te other hand, maybe it would be a good thing to try something different. Either way, I'm as usual talking too much, trying to understand things, that I dont understand/or that I am not qualified to analyse.
Quote:
Christian,
You seem to understand your issue pretty well.
I believe you are creating the open clubface as you start taking the club back at address. If you look down at your club as you start your takeaway you should see a clubface that is slightly closed to the path you're taking the club back on. A club face that points slightly to the right of the target and a back swing that at doesn't even think about going to the outside of that line is a good start.
As you proceed back you need not be afraid to let the face open.
It is important that you start the back swing as a proper swing motion. Use your feet, hips and shoulders and not only your arms to get the path right. No cheating. You want a glitchfree back swing that sets you up to come down the way you went back. You may have to adjust your shoulders and head position at address before you're set to do a square takeaway and a drawish downswing.
There are a components and component variations and component compensations that goes straight to the heart of doing the geometric motion that I described above. And there are several here on LBG who can help you with the finer details of all components involved. I hope some of them will chime in, because your situation is very common.
And there are many possible paths to lasting improvements. A teaching pro might choose to address the symptoms directly or rebuild to a better stroke piece by piece. In which case you should go with the pro.
Being picky about the address and takeaway never hurts in any case, IMO
Thanks for taking your time to write this. Appriciated.
I put two things in bold.
For the first bold part, I can't say much more then THANK YOU! You explained this perfectly, and I think I can really take this in, and work on it.
For the second part. I have been very busy latley just trying to take the club back with my right fore arm. And trying not to do a "one piece takeaway" And probably leaving the syncing of the pivot out in the cold. (Uneducated hands...) And also, I think my right upper arm is losing it's connection with the right side, pretty early in the backswing..
Again. Thanks for taking the time reading, and replying.
As for my lengthy posts... I guess its because I don't have anyone to talk golf with.
I'll try to keep it shorter and more readable.
Interesting that you mention this. I have thought about it aswell -(the reason why I mentioned "right hand down on a hockey stick) -, and it would be interesting to hear some theories.
I can say this much. I started playing golf as a hitter. Without knowing I was hitting. I went to a pro Late april this year, and thats when I changed to "swinging".
By that time I didn't know the terms as hitting, or swinging. My pro told me, that I should swing with my left side, and let the right arm basically come along for the ride. And he also stated that I can't play golf as I play hockey. (Right arm muscular thrust). "No low handicaper does that" (His words, not mine). Not knowing better, I blindly belived that was THE way.
And thats when I started trying to swing, and trust CF... I don't trust it because I can't control it. That might also add to my steering.. Ofcourse, I realise that, the reason I feel I can't control it, is very much because of my flawed fundamentals.
I started researching about the left side driving the swing. And eventually, I ended up with TGM. And later, I ended up here. And now I know, Right arm thrust is a perfectly sound way to hit a golf ball. I feel like a hitter. But I'm not sure I would want to mess up my swing even MORE by starting to hit. On te other hand, maybe it would be a good thing to try something different. Either way, I'm as usual talking too much, trying to understand things, that I dont understand/or that I am not qualified to analyse.
I did see some active Right Arm thrust in your swing, that's why I asked whether you were right handed. Its very natural to use your dominant hand and arm. In fact thats why Homer listed Drive Loading first. 12-1.
Hitting , swinging, one isnt better than the other the choice is yours. But thrusting can be a death move to a Swinger hence the golf magazines CF centric view on everything. When I see new golfers, kids, women I see them thrusting. I see thrusters in tournaments , good golfers.......guys who Ive discovered dont read golf magazines that much. I make a point of asking. They just "get the job done" and are relatively oblivious to golf instruction. To their benefit by and large. Imagine taking some guy who is a tournament golfer and getting him to Swing?
Im not saying to go back to Hitting .......the choice is yours. But you landed in the right place. Only TGM properly distinguishes Hitting and Swinging.
One little tip to think about as you wait to get together with Amen Corner......whether you're swinging or hitting think of the golf swing as the straightening of the right arm (either actively or passively, hitting or swinging) but with the right hand held in the amount of bend you establish at address. In other words dont straighten the right arm and unbend the right wrist. The flip you mention , the loss of the flat left wrist from a right side perspective is the loss of the bent right wrist. You dont necessarily need to keep it fully bent , just the amount you establish at address. Think of it as "frozen" is that helps you. Try it in little chips , feel its geometric simplicity , then little pitches , then little mid irons..... Hitting or swinging (active right arm extension or not)
Homer called this "golf's unique move". The reason good athletes from other sports suffer while learning golf. When you throw a ball you fire the right hand.....not good for golf. So straighten the right arm without unbending the right wrist.
I did see some active Right Arm thrust in your swing, that's why I asked whether you were right handed. Its very natural to use your dominant hand and arm. In fact thats why Homer listed Drive Loading first. 12-1.
One isnt better than the other the choice is yours. But thrusting can be a death move to a Swinger hence the golf magazines CF centric view on everything. When I see new golfers, kids, women I see them thrusting. I see thrusters in tournaments , good golfers.......guys who Ive discovered dont read golf magazines that much. I make a point of asking. They just "get the job done" and are relatively oblivious to golf instruction. To their benefit by and large. Imagine taking some guy who is a tournament golfer and getting him to Swing?
Im not saying to go back to Hitting .......the choice is yours. But you landed in the right place. Only TGM properly distinguishes Hitting and Swinging.
One little tip to think about as you wait to get together with Amen Corner......whether you're swinging or hitting think of the golf swing as the straightening of the right arm (either actively or passively, hitting or swinging) but with the right hand held in the amount of bend you establish at address. In other words dont straighten the right arm and unbend the right wrist. The flip you mention , the loss of the flat left wrist from a right side perspective is the maintenance of the bent right wrist. Not necessarily fully bent , just the amount you establish at address. Try it in little chips , feel its geometric simplicity , then little pitches , then little mid irons..... Hitting or swinging (active right arm extension or not)
Homer called this "golf's unique move". The reason good athletes from other sports suffer while learning golf. When you throw a ball you fire the right hand.....not good for golf. So straighten the right arm without unbending the right wrist.
Good post, thank you!
That right forearm thrust is not intended. I didn't even realise I had it. But I don't doubt you a single bit. I have a VERY hard time getting my elbow into a pitch elbow position. I always end up with what I _think_ is a punch elbow. Atleast it's nowhere near pitch as described in the book. Wich is what I'm striving for.
To clarify, I am TRYING to drag load. (Its obviously not working).
The bold part is part of what I have been working on after seeing my swing on that video. I can't think about a FLW, even if that's what im working on. For it to work, I must learn this mechanic by feeling that my right wrist is bent.(Rather: Learn this FLW "feel", from what I know is a BRW, if that makes sense) Rather than trying to "feel" a FLW since that feel i have at the moment, is wrong.
And i say once again, I am progressing, and I am not flipping the club near this amount any longer; at least not if i compare compression over these few weeks after the video. The 4i is once again my primary tee-shot club and it no longer has this insane trajectory. (When I do stop thinking about the BRW, I do of course flip.)
As for my pivot. It does have an unhealthy amount of forward hip slide, doesnt it? I think I would go about calling it a sway. But am I wrong? This is something thats eating me.(I know my head should be stationary, and I know my left foot should be planted put, and not roll/point more towards the target as it does in my followthrough). Im right now, curious about the slide. Cause it is something that I can't get out of my head.
I am working the basic motion in my hotel room. Every evening! And I can't help myself practicing the takeaway at the moment, after reading what Bernt had to say about that.
And, on a sidenote, no I won't go to hitting the full swing right now. I am hitting my chips and lobs, and shorter shots, because I find it easier to get consistent contact. I am going to learn to swing through a total motion first.
Then, maybe...Probably. Hopefully, hit!
Last edited by Christian : 10-18-2010 at 04:59 PM.
Hybrid Mode
