The other extreme would be guys like Johnny Miller, Olazabal, and Pavin. Hogan is sometimes said to have a "weak grip"(non-TGM term), but I don't think it is quite like these guys.
Gotta work now . . . but I'm on it! Pics to follow.
I think the answer to the question "How flat is flat?" can be found in the right wrist bend at impact fix. In this location the right arm flying wedge includes a precise amount of right wrist bend. Your left wrist will appear flat and vertical or your hand will have some degree of turn on the grip. As long as the right arm flying wedge with its fixed degree of right wrist bend is maintained, then you'll have a geometrically flat left wrist.
Backstroke visual check (swinger) is straight foreword. The flying wedges are assembled (swinger) at the end of the takeaway, aproximately two feet back. The right arm flying wedge is completed and includes its precise amount of right wrist bend. At this position the amount of visual left wrist bend is only the result of a turned left hand at impact fix. This visual amount of bend should exist at the end of the backstroke. Attempting to flatten the left wrist to comply with visual flatness will affect the wedges.
This is a great answer to something which i've been struggling with. My instructor is an advocate of your left hand being placed on the club how it "naturally" hangs - that leaves me with what would normally be called a strong grip and some left wrist bend at impact fix.
Incorrectly i've been trying to flatten the left wrist on the backstroke "to visually flat" - the result is that everything goes left because the clubface is way closed. Sounds like with this sort of grip it is better to just focus on keeping your right wrist bend constant and forget about the left.
The other extreme would be guys like Johnny Miller, Olazabal, and Pavin. Hogan is sometimes said to have a "weak grip"(non-TGM term), but I don't think it is quite like these guys.
No luck on Pavin. I'm not sure that these "weak" grip guys or more accurately vertical or less turned tell you much. The 10-2-D guys are pretty much required to use Angled Hinging wouldn't you say. But the Vertical guys 10-2-B have Horizontal and Angled Hinging at their disposal. Fair wiell for time is long and fate is fickle.
Sounds like with this sort of grip it is better to just focus on keeping your right wrist bend constant and forget about the left.
Bergsey,
Do not neglect the Left Wrist Action (Component #18 ). As Clubhead Control, its perpendicular Cocking and Uncocking and rotational Swiveling are too important to ignore.
Nor should you neglect the [Left Wrist] Hinge Action (Component #10) and its Clubface Control, Learning to hold the Left Wrist vertical to each of the three Basic Planes (Horizontal, Angled and Vertical) through Impact is mandatory.
The Right Wrist, if it moves at all, moves in accordance with the Left, not vice versa.
When HK uses the phrase "flat left wrist", in most cases he is referring to a "geometrically flat left wrist" which is what creates the left arm flying wedge. There are other ways to "proof" the left arm flying wedge. Another way is to use the dowel. If your entire left arm and clubshaft lie flat against the dowel (inside of arm and right side of shaft), then your left wrist is geometrically flat. This is a more accurate method than the bent right wrist method.
I'm not a teacher but I don't think that when you hit a ball left of target it is caused by the over-flattening or arching of the left wrist. You must be pulling the shots. If you arched your left wrist (geometrically or visually), then you will throw the swingle out of alignment with the handle (you twisted (bent) the wedges). This causes the late, hooded and open clubface which would send the ball out lower and then fade off right. You must make sure that you DO NOT cock or un-cock the right wrist (must see Yoda Video).
The surprising truth about swinging (and only for non-manipulative swingers) is that your left hand can be turned 10 degrees weak or strong and your clubface will still align and provide straight-away ball flight if your wedges remain solid (Flat left wrist and bent right wrist). The left hand for swingers doesn’t align the clubface, but the flat left wrist does. Centrifugal force aligns the face (centrifugal force pulls the left arm and clubshaft in-line) for swingers and Horizontal Hinging is the preferred face rotation throughout impact.
HK wants swingers to use Strong Single Action Grip (turned left hand) because it puts the left thumb directly behind the club shaft aiming down the angle of approach and in line with the #3 pressure point. HK designed this grip to do that. He didn’t say "left or Right" this degree or that, he said exactly where to place and turn your hand if you want to use this grip. He is also saying that you can use weak single action if you want. It just won't have the strong impact deceleration prevention that the strong single action grip has.
When HK uses the phrase "flat left wrist", in most cases he is referring to a "geometrically flat left wrist" which is what creates the left arm flying wedge. There are other ways to "proof" the left arm flying wedge. Another way is to use the dowel. If your entire left arm and clubshaft lie flat against the dowel (inside of arm and right side of shaft), then your left wrist is geometrically flat. This is a more accurate method than the bent right wrist method.
I'm not a teacher but I don't think that when you hit a ball left of target it is caused by the over-flattening or arching of the left wrist. You must be pulling the shots. If you arched your left wrist (geometrically or visually), then you will throw the swingle out of alignment with the handle (you twisted (bent) the wedges). This causes the late, hooded and open clubface which would send the ball out lower and then fade off right. You must make sure that you DO NOT cock or un-cock the right wrist (must see Yoda Video).
The surprising truth about swinging (and only for non-manipulative swingers) is that your left wrist can be turned 10 degrees weak or strong and your clubface will still align and provide straight-away ball flight if your wedges remain solid. The left wrist for swingers doesn’t align the clubface in the same way that it does for the hitter. Centrifugal force aligns the face for swingers and Horizontal Hinging is the preferred face rotation throughout impact.
HK wants swingers to use Strong Single Action Grip (turned left hand) because it puts the left thumb directly behind the club shaft aiming down the angle of approach and in line with the #3 pressure point. HK designed this grip to do that. He didn’t say "left or Right" this degree or that, he said exactly where to place and turn your hand if you want to use this grip. He is also saying that you can use weak single action if you want. It just won't have the strong impact deceleration prevention that the strong single action grip has.
Awesome post! You ain't a teacher but you should be!
[quote=Daryl]Bergsey,
I'm not a teacher but I don't think that when you hit a ball left of target it is caused by the over-flattening or arching of the left wrist. You must be pulling the shots. If you arched your left wrist (geometrically or visually), then you will throw the swingle out of alignment with the handle (you twisted (bent) the wedges). This causes the late, hooded and open clubface which would send the ball out lower and then fade off right. You must make sure that you DO NOT cock or un-cock the right wrist (must see Yoda Video).
/QUOTE]
Thanks for the replies Yoda and Daryl.
For the last couple of weeks I've been working on acquired motion pitch shots with a lob wedge. Everything is going consistently straight left (with no draw or fade spin) of target probably 2 -3m on a 50m shot. The clubface is setup at impact fix a few degress open to the target line.
I was thinking it must be a slight over the top move, however i ruled this out by placing a 4 x 2 piece of timber outside of the ball so that if i was coming OTT i would hit the timber first. I'm definately not hitting the timber so i'm (if i'm correct) coming at it from the inside..... almost nailed this as well as all the divots start just after the ball and point pretty much slightly right of the target
Everything's great except for the ball going left!
The only thing i have noticed is what i'd mentioned before, sometimes on the backstroke i feel like the the left wrist is rolling "closed" i.e. knuckles more towards the ground and closing the clubface - this gives me more of a visually flat left wrist at the top but i can see the clubface more closed
Bergsey,
I'm not a teacher but I don't think that when you hit a ball left of target it is caused by the over-flattening or arching of the left wrist. You must be pulling the shots. If you arched your left wrist (geometrically or visually), then you will throw the swingle out of alignment with the handle (you twisted (bent) the wedges). This causes the late, hooded and open clubface which would send the ball out lower and then fade off right. You must make sure that you DO NOT cock or un-cock the right wrist (must see Yoda Video).
/QUOTE]
Thanks for the replies Yoda and Daryl.
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For the last couple of weeks I've been working on acquired motion pitch shots with a lob wedge. Everything is going consistently straight left (with no draw or fade spin) of target probably 2 -3m on a 50m shot. The clubface is setup at impact fix a few degress open to the target line.
I was thinking it must be a slight over the top move, however i ruled this out by placing a 4 x 2 piece of timber outside of the ball so that if i was coming OTT i would hit the timber first. I'm definately not hitting the timber so i'm (if i'm correct) coming at it from the inside..... almost nailed this as well as all the divots start just after the ball and point pretty much slightly right of the target
Everything's great except for the ball going left!
The only thing i have noticed is what i'd mentioned before, sometimes on the backstroke i feel like the the left wrist is rolling "closed" i.e. knuckles more towards the ground and closing the clubface - this gives me more of a visually flat left wrist at the top but i can see the clubface more closed
Thanks
PS sorry to hijack this thread!
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IF THE FACE IS CLOSED ENOUGH AT THE IMPACT INTERVAL THE BALL WILL REACT SOMEWHAT AS A PULL, EVEN FROM AN INSIDE APPROACH,,,i.e. if the OUTSIDE of the ball is contacted at IMPACT. Sometimes the ball goes left so quickly, that when the EYE picks it up it is already left... so the person actually thinks he is OVER-THE-TOP, but is not.
There may be some other things going on also, but we used to see this sometimes at one place I worked.
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